Watched an old Chiefs vs Highlanders game....

Forum » Rugby » Watched an old Chiefs vs Highlanders game....

Jan 12, 2021, 23:35

....and I couldn’t help but notice the contrast with the Munster game over the weekend. Backs trying to actually break the line and beat tackles......innovation vs process, as in a brilliant try scored by Aaron Smith backing up his off load after a break.

We are going to miss Super Rugby and our play is going to deteriorate at least with respect to backline play. In no time we will be looking at NZ backs with awe, as we did back in the nineties, rather than the equanimity familiarity breeds.

Jan 13, 2021, 11:50

Agreed it’s a fuck up that we will no longer play Super rugby

It would have been less of a blow if the replacement competition we have signed up to was a worthy one.

Playing in a NH competition that does not include English and French clubs kind of says it all

Very sad for SA rugby

Jan 13, 2021, 14:28

Saffex, I assume you believe the only worthy tournament in the NH is the Champions Cup.

Well the new Pro Rugby (whatever its called) competition offers a potential gateway into the Champions Cup.

Firstly to get into the Champions Cup, you will need approval from all other the northern hemisphere rugby unions, if South African teams are in  Pro Rugby they will automatically get the support of the unions with teams playing in that tournament. Of course the French and English will still need convincing and that's not guaranteed but if your no longer guaranteed support from the unions involved in Pro rugby, after all their would be far less in it for them at this point.

Secondly the Currie Cup is widely considered inferior to all three of the northern leagues, its unlikely any of the Northern leagues would willing give up Champions Cup qualification spots to the top finishers of the Currie Cup.

Thirdly even if the Currie Cup was considered up to standard, the Champions Cup would not be expanded to accommodated South African teams. The rugby calendar in the north is already far too crowded and the Champions Cup was only recently just shrunk in size for this reason.

So basically your entry into the Champions Cup will have to come from existing qualification spots. Spots you will get access to if your teams are competing in Pro rugby.

Asides from which the Champions Cup has at most nine games for a team that reaches the final, six if your eliminated in the group stages. Also depending on how the group stages go, there is usually one or two dead rubber games in the group stages. Six to nine games in a season is not enough games for any professional rugby team to maintain a high standard.

Super Rugby is gone at this point as sad as that may be too you and its not coming back.  There is benefits to both the South African teams and Pro Rugby, so instead of pineing for the past that isn't going to return or being snobby to a league that's offering you an olive branch why not back and support it. It has great potential.

Jan 13, 2021, 15:04

I hear you but that does not detract from the fact that it’s bad for our rugby and gaining entry to the Championship is both only a slim possibility so in the mean time we have to play in the shit Pro 14, which not only has no French or English clubs competing, the Irish and Welsh clubs mostly play their B sides in the Pro 14 as they attach little value to it

Jan 13, 2021, 16:13

Again there was never a possibility of the South African teams joining either the English or French leagues, they are simply not looking to expand.

I'd say the chances of getting into the Champions Cup are much better than slim with the move into Pro Rugby, probably more likely than not within two to three years but its virtually zero if they don't join .

People who knock the standard of the Pro Rugby invariable don't actually watch it. A lot of the criticism comes from English rugby fans who love to knock the league particularly when teams from the Pro 14 beat English teams in Europe.

Yes there is an issue with the Irish teams fielding B sides for many games in the Pro League, but it doesn't really apply to the Welsh as much as they don't have the squad depth the Irish teams do and usually only two of their four teams gets into Europe and they usually don't make it out of groups. A big part of fielding weaker teams is also to do with the Six Nations affecting the Pro Rugby clubs worse than than England and France. England and France are calling up player dispersed among ten teams, with the Pro nations all the national call ups are coming from either four or two teams. That's not really the fault of the Pro Rugby, it just happens to clash with the Six Nations.

The only alternative is South African teams playing solely in an even shittier Currie Cup.

If the South African teams quality is as good as your implying here and they are allowed qualify for Europe from Pro Rugby qualification spots, then you will force the better teams to play their stronger sides more often or risk losing out on qualifying for Europe.

With the attitude you have, I'm sorta of under the impression you think the South African team's will just waltz Pro rugby. Guarantee you that the South African teams will struggle against the stronger teams of the league when playing away from home, even against the so called B sides of those teams. After all Super Rugby might have had the best standard of rugby in its prime but from my understanding South African teams have only won Super Rugby three time, not once in the last ten seasons and are far from what the would be considered the standard setters of Super Rugby. I don't think any South African team will come close to winning  Pro Rugby it in the first couple of years.

Jan 13, 2021, 18:49

So who won the World Cup?

Jan 13, 2021, 19:56

South Africa, but if your implying that means South Africa are therefor the standard setters in rugby, how come in the same year they won the World Cup , South African club teams didn't even make the semi's in Super Rugby.

Likewise Wales won the 2019 Six Nations and got to the semi's in the Rugby World Cup yet its club teams didn't achieve anything of note that year.

Test rugby does not equate to club rugby or vice versa.

Jan 13, 2021, 20:10

Oh what utter shit - the standard of the Pro 14 is average

The SA sides will thump the sides fielding B sides

Jan 13, 2021, 20:35

Oh really, what do you consider a thumping and would you be interested in a wager?

I think you're some what misinformed about what actually constitutes a "B side" in Leinster and Munster.

Jan 13, 2021, 21:49

It’s a little insulting to SA rugby if you think a Munster B side would offer any resistance to a full strength Bulls side

You can’t be that stupid surely?

Jan 13, 2021, 22:03

Not one of the NH club teams have a prayer against the top RSA teams playing in South Africa. Up north the very best NH teams might give us a go.. And of course Anger wants us to go through some sort of process to join. These Irish chappies learned their lessons from their English masters.

I think a comparison of Irish and Bok WC records over 25 years settles the question of which nation has the most rugby potential,

Jan 14, 2021, 00:26

The so called "B teams" that the likes of Leinster and Munster opt to play frequently in the league are not teams consisting entirely of no name players, They still will play several of there best players in each game, international signings will also play in most Pro games as they are not called away by Six Nations call ups or have mandated rest periods by the Unions that pay for their contracts. Leinster have arguably the best academy system in the world, that keeps on producing excellent players who go straight into a team which already has bucket loads of players with tons of international caps and a habit of winning.

As far as I'm aware Pro Rugby despite being the poor relation in terms of finances up north are still richer than Super Rugby teams so it gives them an edge when it comes to signing and keeping players.

So when you talk being a little insulting after referring to the Pro Rugby as being a shit competition and then suggest your teams which are on average middle ranking Super Rugby teams that haven't won anything in 10 years are just going to show up to the RDS, Ravenhill and Thomond Park in weather conditions they are not use to playing in and thump the so called "B teams" no I think the error is on your part. Could they win, there a good chance of that, thumping them is not to going to happen. If the provinces field their strongest side at home, Is suspect the South African teams will be lucky to keep it to a close game. In South Africa its a different prospect but I still think the Leinster, Munster and Ulster are probably stronger than any of the four current Super Rugby teams overall. Would be honestly delighted to be proved wrong.

Mozat, such a cute attempt at trolling, god loves a trier though. Now go back under your bridge.

Jan 14, 2021, 00:29

Edge in money but certainly not in talent

Comparing NH and SH finances is laughable

Jan 14, 2021, 01:10

If I was trolling for an Irishman, Anger, I’d use a potato.

Jan 14, 2021, 01:16

Well Saffex I guess we will find out in a few months time.

Mozart that's so cute, like a toddler trying to reach up to turn on a light switch. Adorable even.

Jan 14, 2021, 01:23

Ah another thing you can’t teach the Irish, that sarcasm is is the lowest form of wit.

Jan 14, 2021, 01:23

Ah another thing you can’t teach the Irish, that sarcasm is is the lowest form of wit.

Jan 16, 2021, 16:54

Interesting comments my Mallett

I'm afraid the domestic comp has been pretty dreadful viewing. I fear if SA play in isolation due to the Covid situation for too long, players will only be able to play one way. 

There is so much skill, flare and running ability in the youth game, it's a shame to see most sides opting for the same  kick/chase approach at senior level.  Under the current rules it appears as though it's rewarded but I think we'd all like our players to be able to play in many different ways. 

I think the Pro 14 would be good for SA but the ultimate goal should be Champions Cup participation. 

I also remember a lot of people thinking the Cheetahs would crush everyone when they entered despite losing many players. This didn't happen and I think the other franchises entering will have it all their own way. 

Jan 16, 2021, 17:29

"This didn't happen and I think the other franchises entering will have it all their own way. "

The cheetahs have a good team every now and again, but traditionally they are the 5th best province.

Jan 16, 2021, 18:21

Part of the reason the SA sides have been playing a slow game is pretty obvious - they are playing rugby in summer

Jan 16, 2021, 20:27

If Munster were to play the Lions at Ellis Park it would be no contest. A country’s rugby potential is primarily  determined at a national level. And based on that it’s the Boks and NZ.

Jan 16, 2021, 21:42

It will be interesting to see the results...I'm sure there is gonna be a lot of egg flying around one way or another...I'm not making a call 'cause it has to be tested and I  simply don't know but I'm sure there is going to be some fun in the results. Lets save this post for later....haha...hahaha. He who laughs last, laughs best. The Cheetahs example could be a clue. :'(

Jan 16, 2021, 22:20

Reality is, that with most of our players plying their trade abroad, the Pro 14 will be ok for our provincial sides as let’s face it our current sides are effectively B sides

To put that into perspective - of the starting WC winning side only 6 players play in SA and of the match 23, only 9 play in SA - that’s 39% of the side.

The same stat applies to the number of provincial players that have left our sides in the past few seasons

Jan 17, 2021, 02:52

Cheetahs did alright in the Pro 14, came third in their conference in the first season or sixth overall if you go by points and made the play offs but where well beaten by Scarlets in it, they got to the plays off their largely off the strength of their home form where they where quite difficult to beat but struggled away from home.

There form dropped off in the second season and they up only ended up sixth in their conference but looking at points tenth overall.

Third season was a little better but got interrupted by Covid, with Cheetahs fourth in their conference but ninth overall in the standards.

They where a damn site better than the Dragons, Zebre and Southern Kings, kind of solid midfield team, exciting to watch good attack rugby but lacking defensively and struggled with discipline. 

You need to Log in to reply.
Back to top