Some phasing out needed

Forum » Rugby » Some phasing out needed

Nov 12, 2023, 12:40

With some of our players now the wrong side of 30 some gradual phasing out will be needed

The likes of Willie, Mapimpi, de Allende, Faf, Reinach, Kitshoff, Malherbe, Koch, Nyakane, Mbonambi, Etzebeth, Lood, Mostert, Fourie, Kolisi and PSDT will be too old by the the next WC

We need to be working towards something resembling:

15. Willemse

14. Kolbe

13. Am

12. Esterhuizen

11. Arendse

10. Pollard

9. Williams

1. Ox

2. Marx

3. Thomas du Toit

4. Etzebeth

5. RG Snyman

6. Kolisi


8. Roos

With the likes of Fassi, Gelant, Nkosi, Tambwe, Green, Moodie, JVR, David Kriel, Rickus Pretorious, Libbok, Sacha, Nohamba, Hendrikse, Jantjies, Papier, Gerhard Steenkamp, Wilco Louw, Dweba, Grobelaar, Jenkins, Moerat, Ruben v Heerden, Kwagga, Buthelezi, JL du Preez, Vincent Tsituka, Ruan Venter, Elrigh Louw, Wiese, Hanekom and Emmanuel Tsituka being looked at

So over the next 18 months some of these 32 year olds need to be phased out, with the likes of Eben etc before the next WC

Interesting times ahead. Will be interesting to see which new boys make it through

My prediction is JF v Heerden at lock and hopefully Bruce Sherwood at 12

Nov 12, 2023, 14:32

Not so Fassi….my prediction of about 3 years ago is still accurate.

Nov 12, 2023, 14:32

Well 19 of our 2019 Springbok WC 23 were gifted to Harrassmiss by his predecessors. More stunning 16 of our match 23 in the 23 WC final were already Springboks when Harrassmiss started 6 seasons ago.

Clearly he has an aversion to new faces or he can’t spot talent. I’m guessing in 2027 we will field a team with an average age around 34. Now that’s a team I could support!

Nov 12, 2023, 14:49

Fassi is a class act that needed to muscle up and work on his defence - he has done both

Moz who gives a fuck which players Rassie uses he wins us WC’s - the guy is brilliant

Nov 12, 2023, 15:02

No I already disproved that…Pollard lifted us from losers to winners. And Harrassmiss only picked him when Marx was hurt.

Nov 12, 2023, 16:03


Nov 12, 2023, 16:39

The initial selection of 4 scrumhalves, the decision to exclude Pollard from the original squad, the selection of Am to replace Mapimpi when we didn't use him even once, the 7-1 split for the final, the kick-and-hope game plan . . . all stupid shortsighted decisions made by an egotistical fool trying to prove he's some kind of genius.

.  .

Bwahahahaha….you even agree that not picking Pollard was terminally dumb.

The egg flows.

Nov 12, 2023, 18:51

Good team, just wish Esterhuizen would head back to the sharks to link up with Am, but both would be 33 at the next world cup. 

We don't have that many young players that got a crack at this world cup. 

So it will be a hard push. 

What's your thoughts of Moodie at 13. Having a player like Esterhuizen on his inside, which we saw when they played the All Blacks would be massive. 

Esterhuizen was yet again the difference this weekend for Harlequins when he came on in the 2nd half to punch a whole open for his backs. 

I definitely want us to get at least 4 players in each position under 33. Not sure how we would spread it evenly, but players also get injured. So who knows. 

Worried about our centre stock as well as our flyhalf ls. 

We are covered at 9 and our pack. 

We also need a new 10. Libbok could be the answer but haven't seen any other 10 really step up for us 

Nohambe was rubbish at 10 for the lions 

Nov 12, 2023, 20:09

Moz telling us Pollard won us the WC is literally the stupidest rugby related remark I have ever read.

You have surpassed anything ignorant Doos has ever come up with

Nov 13, 2023, 00:01

Not really … can’t do a lot of these comparisons in rugby, but you can with the kicker. It’s a plain as day…if France and New Zealand kicked as well as Pollard, they beat us. Obviously lots of players put us in position to win….but make Ramos our kicker, France beats us. Make Ramos our kicker and Pollard their kicker it’s not even close.

I’m totally convinced without Pollard we don’t win. The players were motivated, but the game plan was rudimentary and the bench selections were ludicrous. Save the genius nonsense for Peeper.

Nov 13, 2023, 11:08

Oh what utter rubbish Moz, so effectively you are saying we should discount every scrum, line out, maul, ruck, carry, tackle and kick made all game.

By your logic I’m going to say Eben won us the game against France scoring that try as if say Mostert had tried to score it, there is no way he would have crossed the line, same applies to RG against England. But it’s bullshit that is not the case in a team game lasting over 80min.

For the record I bet Ramos has a better kicking record than Pollard does.

As for Rassie, you don’t get your side to number 1, win a RC, a Lions series and the WC back to back being an egotistical fool. You do that being a rugby genius which is exactly what Rassie is and is being referred to out there.

Suck it up Moz, you are really embarrassing yourself

Nov 13, 2023, 14:13

Once again you miss the point….let me make it as simple as possible. After Pollard took over we made all our kicks, our opponents made about 75% of theirs.

Everything else, the scrums, the runs, the defense, the mauls  and the penalty and conversion opportunities  got us to a point where we would have lost to France and NZ…..if our opponents converted all those penalties and conversions, just like Pollard.

Pollard was the main difference. So not genius, general play neutrality and better goal kicking.

Case closed.

Nov 13, 2023, 14:19

I think it is time to faze out Kolisi. He had a solid game in the final of the world cup, but in the other games he was usually the first player to be substituted.

Kwagga off the bench easily outplayed him.

Nov 13, 2023, 14:22

Oh what utter crap that’s the nature of the game - you make your kicks you miss your kicks

That’s a small percentage of the make up of a game of rugby

The game is won by the team, creating and defending - all that is directed by the coach

Our coach being a genius at that

All this what if or what not’s is part of the game - we kicked our penalties but we also missed out on try scoring opportunities and some of the tries scored against us should not have been awarded

Pollard did not win us the WC, the team did thanks to a brilliant coach - that’s case closed

Nov 13, 2023, 14:29

You keep ignoring the general play of our opponents who outgained us :

459 to  360 …..14 man NZ

236 to 190….boring England

524 to 424….France.

They also beat more tackles and made more clean breaks. So we were inferior in general play but Pollard rang the cash register. No genius…goal kicking

Nov 13, 2023, 14:39

The game is not won with how much ball you had or how many defenders you beat. That is all worthless if you don’t convert it into points

Our tactic was to kick as you keep saying - we gave them the ball and beat them into submission

That had fuck to do with Pollard

That was down to the genius of our coach knowing how to manipulate the situation to our favour in WC knock out rugby

14 men no specialist hooker

Nov 13, 2023, 15:30

And all that ‘genius’ depended on Pollard clipping over a 53 meter kick against France and a 45 meter kick against NZ. And if Marx never got injured Libbok would be taking and missing those kicks….now that’s genius you can take to the bank.

Nov 13, 2023, 15:38

King - yes Moodie at 13 is a must and hopefully Jake accommodates this at the Bulls

He will get bigger to be the finished product and will no doubt rack up many caps for the Boks

Completely disagree with you about Nohamba being poor at 10 for the Lions, he had a good game was MOM. Not sure why he is playing 10, it completely discredits Hendrikse the official and good flyhalf in the squad. Nohamba is not a 10, he is a great 9 who can cover 10.

We definitely have enough to choose from at centre:

12: Esterhuizen, JVR, Willemse, David Kriel, Rickus Pretorious, Sacha, Dan du Plessis, Marius Louw, Bruce Sherwood, James Mollentze

13: Am, Kriel , Moodie, Willemse, JVR, Henco v Wyk, Gans, Similane, Marnus Potgieter, Jurenzo Julius, David Kriel, Xamlashe and Sebastian de Klerk

At 10 we have Pollard, Libbok, Sacha, Hendrikse, Lombard, Bosch and Chamberlain

Nov 13, 2023, 15:42

No Moz read my posts again - it’s a team sport it’s not tennis

Unless of course Pollard created all those infringements leading to the penalties, that he single handedly scrummed, mauled, jumped, rucked and tackled the opposition and of course scored every try

Suck it up Moz

Nov 13, 2023, 16:01

Except one team had 14 men….genius, brilliant that!

Nov 13, 2023, 16:42

Yes it had 14 as did we for 20 min and we were without a specialist hooker thereby negating the set piece advantage we would have exerted given the numerical advantage

Damn right our coach is a genius given the fact that he had to direct his side in overcoming France, England and NZ to win that cup, not to mention having to face Scotland and Ireland in the groups.

The fact that you are still questioning Rassie’s credentials after this achievement makes you a fool. But it’s your desperation that leads to these depths as you are beyond conceding that you were hopelessly wrong about him so you just keep digging a deeper hole for yourself

I’m yet to see a single article out there not praising Rassie and his team or one that ignorantly informs us that Pollard and not the team won us the most difficult WC ever

Nov 13, 2023, 18:12

NZ is making a habit of getting cards...even reds...only their own discipline to blame, not our luck...commit the crime,  do the time...there's a clear pattern these last few years.

Nov 13, 2023, 19:12

King 5 of each:


Willemse / Gelant / Fassi / David Kriel / Horn


Kolbe / Nkosi / Arendse / Tambwe / Green / Zas / Jacobs / Sebastian de Klerk / Davids / Pienaar

Outside centre:

Am / Moodie / Henco v Wyk / Similane / Xamlashe

Inside centre:

Esterhuizen / Willemse / David Kriel / Rickus Pretorious / JVR


Pollard / Libbok / Sacha / Bosch / Hendrikse


Williams / Hendrikse / Nohamba / Jantjies / Papier


Kitshoff / Ox / Steenkamp / Mchunu / Matanzima


Marx / Dweba / Grobelaar / Venter / JJ Kotze


Thomas du Toit / Wilco Louw / Sadie / Klopper / Mornay Smith


Etzebeth / Jason Jenkins / Moerat / Ruan Vermaak / RG Snyman / Ruben v Heerden / Andre Smith / Ruben Schoeman / JF v Heerden / Ludwig


Kolisi / Kwagga / v Staaden / Buthelezi / Theunissen


PSDT / JL du Preez / Ruan Venter / Vincent Tsituka / Jason-Dixon


Roos / Dan du Preez / Wiese / Emmanuel Tsituka / Elrigh Louw

Nov 13, 2023, 20:36

If Rassie wins a third RWC mozzz and Doos will still be doing all they can to find reasons why Rassie is no good, worst coach ever etc. Note the devious Mozzzzquito never takes issues with the crazy statements made by Doos.

Looks like we are saddled with jackass opinions regarding Rassie regardless.

Nov 13, 2023, 21:29

So nice that Doos has gone AWOL long may it last

Nov 13, 2023, 21:40

Without Nienaber’s defense and Pollard’s boot Harrassmiss wouldn’t even have won one WC.  I mean seriously, the maul was neutralized, NZ even had an edge in the scrums….we had no running game. Take away kicking and defense and what was there?

The defense won’t get better without Nienaber and the kicking won’t get better without Pollard. And the team won’t get better another 4 years older….hell they are 31 already.

That leaves Harrassmiss doing something new….building his own team and diversifying his tactics. Nope….no chance of a threepeat unless he leaves to go into politics.

Nov 14, 2023, 00:18

Fuck sake Moz you speak so much crap starting with the NZ scrum having the edge - bullshit

We see through your prejudice

Rassie is a rugby genius - he just proved that winning the impossible

Suck it up

Nice try with the physio

Our try count matched Ireland bettered England , France and Scotland and should have equalled NZ no thanks to Kolisi so stop speaking crap about our attack

In the knockouts we scored 5 tries and conceded 3 against three great sides

In all our big games we scored 8 and conceded 4, one of which should not have been allowed - all defence my arse

Nov 14, 2023, 00:41

Right we defended valiantly….none better than Mostert. But the try count was 5 to 4 …against  one good side, a mediocre English side and another side playing with 14 men. Parity would be charitable,

Why do I always win these arguments….let’s see…because I have the facts on my side? Got to be it, it’s such a walk in the park

Nov 14, 2023, 01:08

Good old powder puff Mostert the same guy that got his arse handed to him on a plate every time he tried to carry in traffic.

PSDT in the final showed how a real grunt man should tackle as did Eben and RG scoring their tries - real physical men not like that sad excuse pretender

I’ll spell it out for you - we played 5 top sides in the WC

2 tries to 0 vs Scotland

1 try all against Ireland

4 tries to 2 against France

1 try to 0 against England

0 try to 1 against NZ

Hardly the sign of a side lacking an attacking edge now is it?

So because you say you win these arguments do I then have to accept your assertion?

Look Moz as per usual you are a lone shark in your pathetic attempt to discredit the Boks mainly because of our brilliant coach

Problem is, Rassie’s exploits are now so great that you trying to discredit him and the team makes you sound like a pathetic loser

Come on Moz, the rugby world over knows what a great achievement has just been accomplished by the Boks and their genius coach

Why are you embarrassing yourself so, do you have no shame

It’s actually quite funny the lengths you try go to - it’s actually pretty sad

Rassie is a genius who has made your name absolute mud and boy it’s eating you up

Thank fuck Rassie is back to being the head coach - the best Bok coach we have ever had - by some distance in fact

No Bok coach will ever achieve what Rassie has just achieved - pure bloody genius

Nov 14, 2023, 04:17

 we wouldn't have been in with a chance vs France if it wasn't for atleast 2 tries that came off two pin point accurate Libbok kicks...a true team effort. 

Nov 14, 2023, 15:08

4 tries to 3 against France…..but thanks for spelling it out for me Dave. Hahahaha. And Libbok should have passed instead of kicked…the kick introduced a risk which wasn’t necessary with an overlap.

Nov 14, 2023, 15:30


Still cracking up every time I see Moffie's tearful comments about the RWC win.

The thought of this self-important egg-faced old fop feeling all this hurt and pain because we won the trophy just makes me . . . well . . . pffffffffffhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Nov 14, 2023, 16:47

Tearful, pain….hardly. Honest is the word you are looking for.

Nov 14, 2023, 16:50

Moz stop being delusional - you said Pollard won us the WC, how is that honest? It’s utter rubbish and you even know that

Nov 14, 2023, 16:57

I’m convinced if we played any other flyhalf we would have lost the WC. That’s my honest opinion backed up by the numbers. I never said he could do it without the team. But given how close the games were and our single try in the semi and final….the team could not have done it without Pollard’s phenomenal kicking.

Nov 14, 2023, 17:12

Yes he was an integral part of us winning that WC but certainly not the sole reason, not by any stretch

The French would not be saying the same about Ramos - regarded as one of if not the best kicker in the game

They certainly would not have wanted a different kicker in their side

But the great kickers miss kicks, it happens - just like Polkard will miss a few in the future

Nov 15, 2023, 07:35

Well, it's just like us saying that if the All Blacks had played with another flyhalf in the final, they could now be the world cup winners.....

If's and but's

Nov 15, 2023, 15:41

Agreed…but this is a discussion about whether the World Cup was decided because of Erasmus’ ‘genius’. My argument is that genius gave us no more than parity at best, and the deciding factor was Pollard’s perfect kicking….no ifs ands or buts.

Nov 15, 2023, 22:11

Bullshit it was down to the genius of Rassie to get us to those positions where our players had the belief and resolve to win all those games. The team did the defending, the try scoring and created the pressure to achieve the results

Without the tries scored we would not have got past France and then England

It has very little to do with the individual

Nov 15, 2023, 22:29

Sure Dave…the individual doesn’t matter. 

Nov 15, 2023, 23:18

He matters but an individual does not win a rugby game for you - it’s 80 min worth of a team effort to achieve the result thanks to the direction given by the coach

Nov 16, 2023, 01:33

So we would have won with Libbok at 10.

Nov 16, 2023, 05:07


Nov 16, 2023, 08:55

Who knows - he kicked all his kicks in the warm up game against NZ

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