Rainbow Cup over for SA teams in 2021?

Forum » Rugby » Rainbow Cup over for SA teams in 2021?

Apr 12, 2021, 14:25

Reports over the weekend have suggested that South Africa will not compete in this year's Rainbow Cup due to Covid. 
The South African variant can beat most of the vaccines, so the last thing that anyone wants is a new wave of this virus variant


South Africa has also be excluded from the World Surfing Tour in 2021, presumably for the same reason. 


Apr 12, 2021, 14:55

I think the Welsh through a massive hissy fit knowing that their position in the European cup is under threat. 

COVID travel restrictions to  boot. Probably better off striking a deal between  the Irish  clubs and play 4 games in Ireland against the likes  of Munster, Leinster, Ulster and Connacht. The first  3   are quality teams.

But Ja interesting to see that this might go up in smoke. The SA  teams would probably be better off going to NZ for 7 weeks. Quarantine, and then play 5 games. 

This would  at least give us some super rugby action, but I don't think our super rugby teams are as good as they use to be. 


Apr 12, 2021, 15:20

We should never have given up on Super Rugby.  Oz, NZ and SA should have gone back to the S12 format, boosted their local competitions and then the winner of the South should have played the winner  of the North.

Apr 12, 2021, 15:24

Apparently the UK government won't grant the SA teams entry visas, they where intending to be based there.

Don't think it was anything to do with the Welsh clubs. From what I'm hearing is the Rainbow Cup is not going to be used to determine European qualification for next seasons European Cups and that the SA teams would only have been eligible to qualify for them from the first regular Pro 16 season on wards.

Shame but on the other hand from an Irish perspective our teams could probably do with some down time.

Apr 12, 2021, 17:21

The teams were to be based in Bristol but the Govt has declined to grant visas for the SA teams because of Covid. 

It looks like the Cup in its current form is cancelled. 

Apr 12, 2021, 20:10

"We should never have given up on Super Rugby.  Oz, NZ and SA should have gone back to the S12 format, boosted their local competitions and then the winner of the South should have played the winner  of the North.

We didn't, we were kicked out.

Apr 12, 2021, 22:57

Yes, it was New Zealand who insisted that SA was expelled from SuperRugby. 
New Zealand originally just wanted to play the best 2 Australian teams. 

Australia objected, and to that end even supported SA's involvement. But in the end, New Zealand compromised to Australia- and SA and Argentina were thrown out.

A big part of the reason must have been Covid, and all the risky travelling that players would be subjected to. 

Apr 13, 2021, 00:28

SB

Just a  bit of advice  - the so-called SA variant was first found in two English patients without any link with SA.       About a moth after that  the variant was found in SA.    However.  the  discovery of the variant caused a new panic and  stricter  isolation measures were implemented,

It seems as if the worse is over even before widespread vaccination started and at this state of new positive tested cases are down to about  1200 new cases per day,  with about 60 deaths per day, 

My 80 year-old sister-in-law tested positive in January.   Her sister an brother-in-law from  Somerset West visited them over  the New Year weekend and after her brother-in-law  showed signs that there may be a problem, he and his wide went for testing,  and he  was positive and his wife not so.    My brother  and sister-in law as a result went for tests  and he was negative  and she was positive,   After about a fortnight they were retested and both were negative.   My sister-in-law did not get sick at all,    Bearing in mind the ages of the two positive cases it is amazing that they did not get sick.

Bearing in mind  the timing when they got infected they were likely infected by the SA variant so it might not be as dangerous as it is claimed  to be by the media.                           

Apr 13, 2021, 00:51


Apr 13, 2021, 00:28


Bearing in mind  the riming when they got infected they were likely infected by the SA variant so it might not be as dangerous as it is claimed  to be by the media.     

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So the South African variant is now rimming people?  What type of mutation is that? 
The Rainbow cup should certainly be cancelled if this is true. 


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Apr 13, 2021, 00:54

@CleverMike the fact that so many of your family members have been infected, proves that Covid is still around. The higher the infection rate, the more cases- even if they are not officially reported. 

However, in terms of death rate, that is not enough data to be statistically significant to get an average. 

Some estimates are that people over 75 have about 15% chance of death. 1/7 or thereabouts. 
SA is about to go into Winter, which is typically worse all over the world for Covid. 

Apr 13, 2021, 03:11

A glimmer of hope for the Rainbow cup. 

https://www.the42.ie/rainbow-cup-south-africa-5407204-Apr2021/?utm_source=shortlink

Apr 13, 2021, 05:01

Draad you are right technically....we were excluded. But we were already in discussions up north. This thing was breaking up well before Covid. 

Apr 13, 2021, 06:34

Yes, I know, Covid was the excuse NZ used to kick us out sooner than when the contract expired. Things were getting sour or stale for whatever reasons...I think SA were already a bit ticked off when we were forced to kick 2 teams out of Super Rugby...what worth is a friendship if you are treated as a "lesser" friend? It seemed like South Africa always got the raw deal in the SANZAR arrangement...sotimes you need to put your foot down.

Apr 13, 2021, 07:03

There's  a history of Aus and NZ ganging up to get their way in SANZAR...have you forgotten the whole "let's get the Japies" scandal?

It's a pity the politics sucks, because the NZ players are great competitors and I know our players love playing them and playing them in NZ..it will be missed.

Apr 13, 2021, 10:07

Back to the Rainbow Cup -    Supersport is advertising the series on their service and if the series were really out - they would not do that.  

Apr 13, 2021, 12:43

Ja, well we all thought that having players based abroad would weaken the  boks, but it has actually proven the opposite. With the right management and coaches, we can actually put a decent team out that actually won the world cup. Rassie has been doing the right stuff in terms of player and club management. 

Gone are the belief that local will be better. 

That said, NZ has always managed to get their way and have been very shifty. The managed to get 5 teams even though at one point only 2 or 3 teams were quality back when it was the super 14. The Stormes even managed to beat all five NZ teams back then which included a 5 week travel. The bulls started to win in NZ as well as the sharks. So NZ always look at shifting the goal past. 

We also need to go back to the origins. It was meant to be the best provinces competing which actually saw EP qualify based on the fact that they finished above WP in the currie cup, but WP did poor in the currie cup because all of the boks were not playing or injured at the time. 

Australia only had 2 provincial teams, Queensland and NSW. Hence Super 10. 

SA still operated on the best provincial team model, but NZ pulled another fast one and decided to created franchises when it went to super 12. I still don't know how they managed to get 5 teams. 

If anything, SA has greater player depth but we squander it. 

Australia made the right step with 3 teams in the Brumbies as the proved to be the real surprise package as a make shift team, but with Eddie emerging and actually setting up an exciting brand of Rugby which the boks end up copying or should I say Jake White. Setting up phases, get the field narrow and using big forwards to break the line around the fringes. 

Eventually greed got in the way under the guise of expanding the game. 

Also note that the bargies (Argentina) did better when their players were based in Europe than in Super rugby. 

I would almost say with COVID and all, they should go back to the Super 10. Host it in one country 2 pools and use the provincial teams rather than the  franchise teams. 

Invest in our local provinces and  allow them the oppertunity, but we are so obsessed with Franchise rugby. It has become so boring. 

I can't watch  anymore of the same 4 or 5 teams play the  whole year. 

I want to see a cup, player over 7 weeks

I want  the super 12  back where you can watch a game and support any of our SA teams and  start watching from Friday Morning until Saturday afternoon. 

No dumb play-offs, 1 teams of each country conferences nonsense get through etc. 

But ultimately, I want a fare playing field that means teams don't have travel for so long but equally. 


I also think NZ has gotten really cocky with the sponsorship deals that they are getting. 

Will just wait and see

Apr 13, 2021, 14:32

Some good points King...partners should be equal for the partnership to last...and the travelling always put us at a disadvantage.

Apr 13, 2021, 17:25

Maybe when Covid ends, SA will rejoin Super rugby in some capacity - like 3 teams.
And then 2 teams stay in the Northern Hemisphere.

 
Although New Zealand would need to reduce the number of teams they have, which probably would not happen.

This has been the problem with SuperRugby. New Zealand wants more teams, so they want a local derby combined with only the best teams from SA and Australia.

New Zealand certainly has the most backline depth, but not the forwards for 5 teams. 


Apr 13, 2021, 17:57

Ideally the competitors should be balanced in a way that the travel is closer to the same for all. NZ and Auz being so close to each other skewed things in the past...will be difficult to get around it though...

Apr 14, 2021, 00:28

Super rugby is our only option. Because of geography we are isolated and ultimately negotiating from weakness whether we are looking at the NH or the SH. But we have a history in SH club rugby, that counts for something. And Super Rugby is much more compelling than watching Munster play phase rugby.

Apr 14, 2021, 17:58

It's not our only option, but it is our best option...and NZ's too. Let's hope a (hopefully short) sabbatical makes all parties realize what we will be missing. 

Apr 14, 2021, 21:12

SA moving to Europe may be the death-knell of New Zealand Rugby. 


The viewership figures will be much smaller now for Superrugby.
Not only from South Africa - but other areas in the world. 

This former international tournament is now basically a national derby tournament, with some average Australian teams added to the table to provide some extra matches.

Fewer viewers mean less revenue to pay salaries.
More New Zealand players could go to Europe for more money. 

Adding South Africa to Europe improves the traditional Northern Hemisphere tournaments while reducing the traditional Southern Hemisphere "Super Rugby". 

More money from European participation could mean higher salaries for SA based players, retaining more quality players within South Africa. 

So as SuperRugby is now worse off without SA, Europe can become more like football with the highest paid salaries. 

New Zealand could be left without a pot to piss in. 



Apr 15, 2021, 15:36

Three new rules changes being trailed during the Rainbow Cup.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/0415/1210082-rainbow-cup-confirms-20-minute-red-card-trial/


Apr 19, 2021, 06:41

Ye right......

We will see what happens won't we.

NZ have made it very clear that they don't depend on South Africa.

South Africa is a large distance away from all the major rugby markets - North and South so we should wait and see what happens I think.

There seems to be some indications in the Northern hemisphere that the South Aficans are not wanted but lets wait and see how it actually plays out.

I suspect that Covid may be playing a part in that - However - South Africa is a country that the decision makers may look for any excuse - So it may bounce from health to other suspected problems as an excuse.

Apr 19, 2021, 08:12

The South Africans have been talking about it for decade - So go for it boys................

 

Apr 19, 2021, 12:55

Well, I think I would like to see the South Africa actually play in the Eurpean Cups. 

We have enough provinces and SA can also play directly against the  English teams too. 

There use to be an Anglo Welsh Cup which pitted English teams against welsh  teams. Apparently the teams got  more money from this. 

So for me it is more about restoring our local rugby to be sustainable and allow all of our provinces to  be  financially sound that can compete with one another but also get rewarded for  building great squads. Especially from grass roots. 

So I would like to see our top teams compete against Toulon, Saracens, Exceter etc and not just 3 or 4 Celtic teams and the rest just fodder for  filling up the schedule for the sake of matches. 

Apr 19, 2021, 12:57

Some history to the cup 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Welsh_Cup


Apr 19, 2021, 14:35

So the Rainbow Cup starts this weekend...the first 3 rounds will be local derbies only...

Apr 19, 2021, 23:05

There is potential for Europe to shut out South African teams.

It is interesting because the South African teams have stated for a decade that they wanted to shift to Europe and at the first actual hurdle - The UK have shut them out - Very, very interesting outcome.

Is Covid the reason or will the powers that be in Europe continue to find excuses to not include South African teams.   

A comment made on here - So I would like to see our top teams compete against Toulon, Saracens, Exceter etc and not just 3 or 4 Celtic teams and the rest just fodder for  filling up the schedule for the sake of matches. 

Interesting Comment - LOL


Apr 20, 2021, 06:27

"It is interesting because the South African teams have stated for a decade that they wanted to shift to Europe ..."

Where/when/who have "they" state this? Come now, please give us actual facts. We went to Europe when SANZAR kicked out two of our Super teams...and we went there again when NZ announced that that we've been booted from Super Rugby altogether. 

Apr 20, 2021, 07:18

Europe has been talked about for quite some time.

There were issues with travel and the fact that the South African teams were playing in a different time zone when travelling down under. 

Apr 20, 2021, 09:50

" South African teams have stated for a decade that they wanted to shift to Europe..."

"Europe has been talked about for quite some time."

Moving the goal posts now?

Apr 20, 2021, 12:43

"Well, I think I would like to see the South Africa actually play in the Eurpean Cups. 

We have enough provinces and SA can also play directly against the  English teams too. 

There use to be an Anglo Welsh Cup which pitted English teams against welsh  teams. Apparently the teams got  more money from this. 

So for me it is more about restoring our local rugby to be sustainable and allow all of our provinces to  be  financially sound that can compete with one another but also get rewarded for  building great squads. Especially from grass roots. 

So I would like to see our top teams compete against Toulon, Saracens, Exceter etc and not just 3 or 4 Celtic teams and the rest just fodder for  filling up the schedule for the sake of matches.!"

From what I hearing the South African teams will be able to qualify for the European Cups from the first full season of Pro 16 Rugby. So assuming the SA teams finish top 6 in the league or top 3 spots in each conference they will get into Europe.

There is no possibility of the English or French leagues taking in South African teams so that's a non runner straight up. European cup is the only way you will be playing them.

There is no way there is no way more money was earned by English and Welsh during the Anglo-Welsh Cup. Far more money is going into the game nowadays. The Welsh also turned down the opportunity of creating and English-Welsh league something they seem to regret doing now. The Welsh clubs do need to their club game though, they have poor for the last two seasons.

As for fodder teams, every league has them.


Apr 21, 2021, 11:46

So is it on or has it been cancelled?

Apr 21, 2021, 11:59

Its not been cancelled but the SA teams will not be taking part.

Hopefully a regular Pro 16 season can start later in the year when Covid is more under control.


Apr 21, 2021, 12:23

The rainbow cup and the new pro 14 are 2 different competitions. The cup was just there as a money spinner and to get our SA players and teams back up to speed with the game in preparation for the Lions series. 

Although, I think SA Rugby will have to think outside of the box. 

I saw a couple of suggestions of they could potential prepare the boks. One idea is to have the springboks play against all the Franchises to get them match ready. 

Perhaps we can get our overseas boks to join the squad and maybe have a few games against a pacific team and the US along with playing warm up matches against local teams. 

It won't really test us that match, but hopefully it will get us match ready

Apr 21, 2021, 17:09

Yes, it was on the Radio that SA won't play international teams in the RC...there wil be a local derby series for time being...but, but, the vaccine they said...:blink:...so, I suppose it's not as effective as they try to promote it?

Apr 21, 2021, 17:29

As I said a few days ago, the UK Govt would not grant visas for the SA teams to visit; SA is still on our Red List. 

It’s just going to be a split tournament instead, not ideal, but the best that can be done under the circumstances. 

Vaccination is not a cure all, Draad. It just means you MIGHT not catch the virus or, if you do, you just won’t be so poorly. It isn’t the magic bullet some seem to think it is. 

Apr 21, 2021, 17:37

I know Becs, but rugby is played by fit young men...and there's things like quarantine...if this tanked, the Lions Tour will probably tank too.:'(

Apr 21, 2021, 19:36

The Lions Tour remains in place, there’s now just a row over player release for the training camp.......

Apr 21, 2021, 19:48

For now...:(

Apr 21, 2021, 20:42

Yep......all subject to change in this world these days !

But, as it stands, the Lions are still going ahead.

Apr 22, 2021, 23:05

Good morning South African friends,

Too bad the tournament hasn't started yet. I can imagine how great it is for you to be able to participate in the Rainbow Cup.

Play against Irish, Scots, Welsh. Reasonable travels without jet lag. Above all, your teams will have more financial resources.

Being Argentine I must admit that I would have loved that Jaguares had joined the PRO16 with Sharks, Lions, Stormers and Bulls.

Unfortunately Jaguares is currently confined to South America and plays against Cafeteros PRO (Colombia), Olimpia (Paraguay), Cobras (Brazil), Selkham (Chile) and Peñarol (Uruguay). After having played Super Rugby it is quite depressing.

:(

Apr 23, 2021, 00:47

Its a possibility the Jaguares might end up joining it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro14/jaguares-look-to-join-pro14-after-super-rugby-split-1.4490825

Apr 23, 2021, 02:16

Having South America based in Spain would be good to get a new audience. Not sure how popular it is in Spain though. 


Apr 23, 2021, 10:53

Hmm, I think the pumas did better as a team when most of their players were based in France and England. 

Nice to see that they are trying to create their own continental competition, but it would almost be better to Join major league rugby. Looks like they are growing and more teams are being added. 

Some decent crowds too

 
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