Pollard not genius won the WC

Forum » Rugby » Pollard not genius won the WC

Nov 09, 2023, 15:03

The usual phenomenon of ascribing a win to the most popular factor is rife on the Board. It’s genius, it’s the bomb squad, it’s defense, it’s physicality. On balance genius  wins the day. Even posters who were calling Erasmus an ‘egotistical fool’  days before the WC final are now calling him a genius. And those who were trashing him five weeks ago have totally forgotten that…..all anxious to wrap themselves in the flag.

Success has many fathers….but is genius the right father? A very simple exercise says nope. Here are the facts in all the significant matches: 

Ireland 8 to 13….kick pts missed 11 to 0….adjusted score 19 to 13

France 29 to 28…kick pts missed 2 to 5….adjusted score 31 to 33

England 16 to 15….kick pts missed 0 to 0……adjusted score 16 to 15

All Blacks  12 to 11 …..kicks pts missed 0 to 5 ….adjusted score …..12 to 16

So what does that all tell us. Firstly it says if Pollard was our flyhalf, all other things being equal, we comfortably beat Ireland.

Secondly it says if Ramos kicked like Pollard, or if Pollard missed that long bomb…..we lose to France.

Thirdly it confirms by the tiniest margin we were the better team in general play than England.

And finally, even overlooking the 10 point handicap of the red card, NZ wins if they had a kicker as secure as Pollard.

So in general play we beat Ireland, lost to France, beat England and lost to NZ. Pollard, not genius was the reason we won the knockout games, in all other aspects we were equal or slightly behind. And the absence of Pollard was the main factor in the Irish loss.

Then when you consider that genius thought a fourth scrum half was more important than selecting Pollard who was going to be ready in a few weeks…..it’s even clearer genius got many things wrong….Pollard not genius won the WC.

Nov 09, 2023, 15:49


Individuals does not win WC's  - it is plain stupid to even make such a statement.    Pollards 4 kicks at goal produced the points - but the team must combine to ensure that those points are  protected.

A nybody who claim otherwise are talking  BS.          

Nov 09, 2023, 16:28

A whole lot of "if's". 

The Boks could have put another 15 points on the All Blacks if Marx never got injured.
The lineouts were a shambles, and usually the base to setup most Bok attacking movements

Usually, for every lineout the Boks set up near the opposition line, their is at least 33% chance of scoring a try, and also a decent chance of winning a kickable penalty. 

Nov 09, 2023, 17:41

So how exactly did Pollard get to take those kicks? Did he create all those penalties and score the tries he converted?

If so then yes he won us the WC

Nov 09, 2023, 17:48

Pollard was instrumental…but the support of the rest, gave him the stable platform to do his thing….I still believe we could have done more with some adding on to Tassies Gameplan….but nowadays here on Ruckers a person gets almost eaten alive if any suggestions is made in improving our style of play….like adding more to our attack….it is such a logical and good thing to say….but the Tassie mob is Ruthless : ) so you guys honestly think that nothing has to be changed and that this way of playing will bring another WC Glory come 2027, by the skin of our teeth??

Nov 09, 2023, 17:51

Why change the style of play if it wins you a WC?

Nov 09, 2023, 18:07

Because things change constantly….teams are gunning for us and Fine tuning there play + Tatics…so come 27 it might not be enough as teams will be bringing new things to the Party.

Nov 09, 2023, 18:18

Well we played a different style before the WC then did what was necessary to win knock out rugby at the WC

No doubt we will revert back to playing a more expansive game moving forward like we did in the warm up game against NZ

One thing is for certain Rassie knows what’s best for the side and will guide them accordingly - the guy is a rugby genius

Nov 09, 2023, 18:25

Un fucking believeable!!!

Nov 09, 2023, 18:29

What’s wrong Draad?

Nov 09, 2023, 18:30

Okay so that’s exactly the response I expected…..the team creates the penalties, they are a consequence of general play. Right. I couldn’t agree more. I accept the Boks and their opponents’ general play created the penalties and the conversions.

That’s a given.

All I’m doing is giving our opponents a kicker as reliable as Pollard. If I do that we lose against France and we lose against New Zealand.

The only valid counter argument is to say the opponents’ kicks were more difficult. But they weren’t, if anything they were easier. This logic drives one to the conclusion we were marginally weaker in general play than our opponents and Pollard made the difference.

Another counter argument would be that playing Pollard weakened our general play. But that’s also not true Pollard made several incisive runs and his out of hand kicking was excellent. His defense wasn’t great but nor was Libbok’s.

Absent Pollard we don’t win the WC.

Nov 09, 2023, 18:33

Draad is amazed by this revelation….how could one man be so crucial. Pollard kicks at 90% and we lose the WC and Rassie planned it all.


Nov 09, 2023, 18:50

Rugby is a team game...Pollard was a vital cog in the clockwork, but on his own...?....your spinning won't change anything...we won with Rassie, DdA, PSDT and Kolisi playing crucial parts,...sory you can't  comprehend it...you see, you're the one diminishing some of the effort, not me...I value the team effort, youre the one looking for excuses why we should not have won...etc...pathetic...I wasted enough time on this BS...cary on...over and out on this silly topic...cheers.

Nov 09, 2023, 18:52

Wonder where is Deus? Hope the guy is ok…missing his posts :) hopefully he is back soon.

Nov 09, 2023, 18:58

Poor old Draad wants to stand there in his kort broekie with his beer pens hanging over the elastic, waving his flag. And he doesn’t want anybody to spoil his fun

Nov 09, 2023, 18:59

...probably time for another skin...he's been around in these forums for atleast 14 years...he'll be back...

Nov 09, 2023, 19:00

Dumbass don’t you get it, I give you all those inputs. All I do is change the kicker and we lose. This is a clear instance of where one player, stunningly left out of the original team, is the difference between winning and losing.

The media hasn’t made this disturbingly obvious point because it’s more sexy to talk about Dud Toit and narcissist that coaches the team.

Nov 09, 2023, 19:07

Moz your take on France and NZ being better in general play is utter rubbish

Ramos is regarded as one if not the best kicker in the game

The Kiwi kickers are just as good as Pollard

We created opportunities and converted them - that’s called the nature of the game

The genius in Rassie is his ability to disrupt the opposition and pressurise the opponents when it counts the most - the last 10 minutes

Pollard never won us the WC the team did, Pollard was a vital part of that team

We won the most difficult WC ever thanks to a great side and a genius of a coach

Nov 09, 2023, 19:08

Look, knockout rugby comes down to a few key moments that are largely out of the coaches' hands. You can coach a team to be competent and competitive, and that has certainly been done, we can give that to Rasnaber and co. no question. The Boks are top 5 competitive, and we build that largely on our disruptive defense.

Not that we can't attack when needed, we can. In knockout games we tend to choose not to, with a few exceptions like the previous World Cup final. In 2023 against England, this negative strategy nearly got us knocked out of the tournament. It was the wrong strategy to give a toothless England so much respect. That game exposed a major weakness in our knockout game strategy - if the opposition doesn't give us free errors to feed on, we struggle to score. England were clinical and just about beat us by playing no rugby at all, compounded by the fact that we didn't play any rugby either. 

As Moz has already pointed out, if Steward had cleared deep at the end, we were probably knocked out in the semis by a far inferior side. If there was any coaching genius on display, I didn't see it. Thank Ox and Pollard and Steward for that one.

In the final the All Blacks had a bad bounce early in the game which would have been a try for them had it been a little more favorable. Kolisi's white line fever sunk a possible Bok try. These things are not under a coach's control. Small player decisions that the coaching staff have little to do with swing these games. And the red card cannot be discounted - we would not have discounted it if it went our way and we lost.

In a one point victory, coach genius is a hard theory to accept. Especially if one goal kick makes the difference. Trying to convince me that the team with 29 on the board has a genius coach and the team with 28 has an ordinary coach is a bit of a stretch. I'd say they both have competent coaches who have built competitive teams, and one or two bad bounces, a bit of luck or a bad decision or two on the field swung it one way or the other.

Nov 09, 2023, 19:09

Rugby doesn't work like a statistical equation...you don't get to manipulate the variables like that...the end result is not merely the sum of the parts...for the good teams it's more...way more for the great teams...but you refuse to see that...dumbass LOL...you're not half as smart as you think you are...pull your head out of your arse and grow up outoppie, life's too short for your silly games...you calling anyone else a narcissist...LOLOLOL...cheers for real this time.

Nov 09, 2023, 19:09

Thank fuck that utterly useless twat Doos has gone awol

The chicken shit has gone running because Rassie has made his name mud

Fucking useless coward

Nov 09, 2023, 19:17

Pakie...sometimes you need a little luck, but luck won't take you all the way...this is the best Bok team since Naas, Carel and Danie's team of the mid 80s...if not better...and there's room for improvement,  yet some are looking for reasons to deride that...it p!$$e$ me off no end.

Nov 09, 2023, 19:18

Probably too abstract for you Draad…..just keep waving the flag. Deus has always moved on to new challenges, he will be back making great contributions when there is rugby to be played. As for calling somebody behind a computer screen a coward, what exactly does bravery look like?

Nov 09, 2023, 19:22

...does calling other people supid make you feel better about yourself?...asking for a friend...

Nov 09, 2023, 19:25

Doos is the most ignorant useless rugby follower I have ever come across

He has gone running because Rassie has made his name mud just like he has yours Moz

At least you are still here facing the music unlike your coward friend

Nov 09, 2023, 19:29

I feel fine about myself….always have. We are different….I enjoy the debate, you like posting pictures of the Boks with the cup. I treated your rant with a bit of humor…you went low with ‘outoppie’ as if that’s new news. Do what you like, but try to not be boring.

Nov 09, 2023, 19:39

Moz it’s unlike you to stir:)

Nov 09, 2023, 19:41

You went lower long before the outoppie remark...and outoppie is much more endearing than insulting in Afrikaans...bit it's probably too abstract...

Nov 09, 2023, 20:03

Grow up outoppie was endearing …..sure I believe you.

Nov 09, 2023, 20:17

Oh dear, looks like Moffie is still feeling dispirited!


Nov 09, 2023, 20:23

"Grow up outoppie was endearing …..sure I believe you."

...I  didn't intend it to be endearing,  but also not to be highly insulting as you took it ...certainly less insulting than calling you stupid...

Nov 09, 2023, 20:27

Please call me stupid if you like……it’s hardly realistic, now is it?

Nov 09, 2023, 20:34

...no, it would be stupid, that's why I didn't...but I had enough of pigeon chess...it's not fun anymore...you're good at baiting, but I'm gonna really try passing ....cheers.

Nov 09, 2023, 20:41

Actually you have me wrong. I believe everything I wrote about the WC. I think we got very lucky, I think the game plan was bankrupt, I believe the card ruined the game and I believe the Boks could be so much better than that.

Nov 09, 2023, 20:43

Play nice, gentlemen. It’s my birthday !! 

Nov 09, 2023, 20:47

Hello - we won the WC ffs

Nov 09, 2023, 20:47

I think we got the message, Saffex ! ;) 

Nov 09, 2023, 20:48

Happy birthday becs, now drinking age?

Nov 09, 2023, 20:49

Becs you might have but I think Moz is still struggling to come to terms with Rassie embarrassing him

Nov 09, 2023, 20:50

Moz, I attacked some of your ideas,  not your person...being called an outoppie is not an insult...cheers...it's  late here.

Nov 09, 2023, 20:51

Absolutely drinking age :) 

Thank you Mozart. 

Nov 09, 2023, 20:52

No worries Draad ….the truth can’t be an insult. All good here.

Nov 09, 2023, 21:32

Pls guys don’t upset our only Becs on the Forum : )….. Moz and Draad I agree 100% we can improve to be so much better, but you can’t take away, that it was a good Effort from the Boks to win this very difficult WC….Tassie does deserve credit for his out of the Box thinking….and Nienhaber for his strategic and well planned defence….having said that, I still believe that it was just to close for Comfort….we need to be able to build that Buffer….add more to our Arsenal so shit ain’t a 50/50 all the time …that can go either way…I also like Deus and one thing is for certain, that the Abuse he endures, is absolutely and Totally unjustified…Deus will be Back, and that is Totally fine by me.

Nov 10, 2023, 05:08

Notice once more Rooi's contribution to the this thread.

I'm telling you, Moz, the guy is love with you.

Nov 10, 2023, 06:10

"Please call me stupid if you like……it’s hardly realistic, now is it?"

What's unrealistic about it? Hits the nail on the head if you ask me.

Nov 10, 2023, 06:22

Haha just reading though some of the latest threads...

Moz has inadvertently turned Rooi into an ankle biting beta.

Hilarious stuff.

Nov 10, 2023, 08:23

Mozzz has been hugely embarrassed by this RWC win.

Inside the poor oak is fuming. How can such a smart guy like me keep getting it wrong while these other fools get it right. 

Doos, man is that guy smart, and I know the Boks are the worst team ever with the worst coach ever and have a terrible defence

Yes and we know the Boks have a soft underbelly and a glass jaw. I just can't fathom how others posting here don't see this!

The fact of the matter is that after years of Rassie and Bok bashing these two look like the total Mamparas they are.

They imagined they very, very smart, knew it all and everybody had to accept their daft views. Now they stand exposed as hopeless, biased bigots. 

I told you they would be enraged by the Bok win and were so hoping we would lose. Was I right! 

Doos has slunk away and if he reappears it could be under yet another name

Mozzzzz again looks at things from one slanted angle only. By doing so he once again exposes his extreme bias, the bias that has made him a laughing stock.  He lauds the comments made by Doos. 

Man what a debacle for these two loons. 

Nov 10, 2023, 08:34

Notice how quickly ButtPlug has assumed the role of Alpha-Gimp now that Doos has slunk off?

Nov 10, 2023, 08:36

Mampara power doesn't understand the Boks adjusted their style of okay to the conditions and opponents. 

You won't hear him quibble about Ireland only scoring one try against us. That their attack was nullifed by out worst ever defence.

Or how we outscored France who has a brilliant attack. 

He ignores the fact the semis and finals were played in pouting rain. Conditions where backline play becomes extremely difficult and risky. 

England know and understand those conditions and look how they elected to play

Then against nz the Kiwis tried to run the ball but to no avail. They scored one try that was no try as the ball went forward. Rassie played the game the same way England played.

The point is this Bok side was able to adapt to opponents and conditions. That was part of tbe genius of Rassie. 

You play the game that gives you the best chance of winning  Twinkle toes ballarina rugby is not always the best winning rugby. 

The effect of the injury to Marx cannot be underestimated. 

We know we would have beaten Ireland had Pollard played. 

Jessie Kriel had a great RWC, we don't know what the effect of Am not being fit was. Ditto that very good lock Lood de Jager. 

But dispite all this we still won. Hats off to Rassie and his Boks. 

No side at a RWC has EVER shown more guts and character. 

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