Mostert’s two WC final missed tackles

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May 27, 2020, 16:58

The useless ESPN has Mostert down as a clean sheet on defence. Bullshit

In the period England were relentlessly attacking our line and the boys did us proud keeping them out, Mostert missed two tackles - FACT

Minute 29.51 he misses Tuilagi who effectively ploughs straight through him

Minute 30.58 he misses Ford - straight miss

Case closed, says a lot for ESPN’s statisticians - they are a joke

May 27, 2020, 17:17

It’s not ESPN’s statisticians. 

May 27, 2020, 17:28

Whoever the monkies are who view these games and come up with these results should be shot

Their measures of metres gained by players is always a laugh as well

May 27, 2020, 17:36

Dave

I saw both - but I also saw the spilled ball at minute 41,   And Mozart keep praising the guy,

The other funny part is that there were 4 converted scrum panelties  two against  Marko Vunipola and two against Dan Cole.   So Beast save SA by forcing Cole in conceding two penalties,   Really  he is all screwed up,

I give all players credit for the WC win - end of story.              

May 27, 2020, 17:43

I only had to watch 5 minutes to watch the fuck ups

His worst contribution wash being carried backwards at a rate of knots

Why the fuck in this day and age would you select a 110kg lock - WHY

That’s not a lock end of story

What irritates me the most about him is that he has good skills, has a big heart and loads of energy but is too bloody lazy to spend time in the gym bulking up to a respectable size like Big Vic did, like Kolbe has

May 27, 2020, 23:17

Nonsense at minute 29.51 Tuilagi darts  into the space between Mostert and Marx it’s either player’s tackle. Mostert brings Tuilagi to ground from behind even though Marx is clumsily piling into Mostert and falls on top of him, breaking Mostert’s hold, but  Tuilagi is on the deck. No missed tackle. 


At minute 30.58 Pollard and Mostert who is slightly behind form the defensive line. Pollard is in position to tackle Ford who throws a dummy and steps inside. Mostert is out of position but adjusts. He ankle taps Ford who is going down as he crashes into the Beast unable to offload to Lawes. No missed tackle.

But at minute 29.26 you can see Dud trying to tackle Vunipola who bounces him and offloads to Underhill. That was a missed tackle and he was breaking Dud’s tackle again at 30.02 but Malherbe stopped him. 


Dave as I expected ESPN is spot on and you sadly   are clueless.


May 27, 2020, 23:31

Absolute bullshit

Mostert tries to stop Tuilagi. A tackle means the player is not able to continue forward to be stopped by another player. 100% missed tackle, no debate

The Ford miss is even worse, Mostert misses him completely

Joke is, had PSDT for instance missed those tackles you would be all over it

Mostert missed 2 tackles and that’s a FACT

The evidence is there for everyone to see

May 27, 2020, 23:50

It happened exactly as I described and as ESPN recorded it. You are full of it.

May 28, 2020, 00:21

As for the lineout ball Mostert supposedly lost at minute 41......it was  England’s throw in Wanker you moron. Pollard put the ball in touch from a mark,


Other than his contesting of that lineout,  Mostert wasn’t close to the ball for the first 3 minutes of the half.


Is that all you fools have got?

May 28, 2020, 01:11

Bullshit two clear missed tackles and no one on here can dispute them

Mostert was his usual powder puff self in that final, easily the weakest of the Boks on the day

He has never had a good test - just not capable - much like Whitely

No escaping those two missed tackles though - any future reference to ESPN needs to be scorned at - complete insult to rugby followers

They must have had a blind geriatric watching that game recording those defensive stats

May 28, 2020, 01:52

Nope...it’s EXACTLY as I described it and ESPN recorded it. Two difficult tackles from behind and in both cases the tackled  player hit the deck. That constitutes a successful rugby tackle as defined by the rules of rugby:


tackle can take place anywhere in the field of play. ... For a tackle to occur, the ball-carrier is held and brought to ground by one or more opponents. Being brought to ground means that the ball-carrier is lying, sitting or has at least one knee on the ground or on another player who is on the ground.


Both Vunipola and Ford were brought to ground from behind by Mostert.....both difficult tackles where he did better than his fellow defenders.

May 28, 2020, 07:30

Mozart

I agree with Dave - a tackle is when a player or players bring a player to ground in a tackle.   If a player loses hold of a player in the process and the player still go forward it s a missed tackle and any other player involved is credited with the tackle,   Dave is correct both times as to missed tackles.

Mostert is not the best defender around - never was.  He was tried at 7 by the Lions on request of Erasmus and failed because of inadequate defense.    He missed a tackle that led to the one  AB try in the WC.  He had other misses as well - so the tackle deficiency and his shortcomings in lineouts against physically stronger locks resulted in his usage from the bench after the AB test and that is where he remained for the rest of the series.                  

May 28, 2020, 10:08

Bullshit a player needs to stay down and not be able to move forward and have to be stopped by the next player which is exactly what happens with Tuilagi. Tuilagi gets past Mosterts feeble attempt to bring him down permanently - missed tackle - case closed

With Ford, it’s one on one with Mostert, with Ford cutting inside. Mostert gets his hands on him but Ford slips past with ease. The most obvious missed tackle you can get. Case firmly closed

Both misses make a complete mockery of ESPN and your take on a tackle

Mostert missed 2 tackles and that’s a FACT not an opinion. It’s not up for debate

Mike is right, that one miss by Mostert against the AB’s lead to a try

He is not a test standard player

Starter, to bench, to discard is his worthy path

Why pick a 110kg lock in the modern game is my question?

May 28, 2020, 12:38

Dave

I do not think Mostert will be selected again - there are too many good locks in SA and I think Erasmus is particularly interested in Schickerling, while there are other youngsters coming through as well.  

I do not think Mozart knows what he is talking about.  Whenever you and  I mentioned a player he has to denigrate that player and find another which he try to praise all out.  That ahs been the case with Du Toit and De Allende for years.

In another thread he went for Erasmus  totally based on BS and in fact supported Meyer and Coetzee,   That is typical Mozart.     

May 28, 2020, 13:32

The ONLY reason Moz is calling those two obvious missed tackles no misses is because it’s Mostert

Had that been PSDT, de Allende, Lood etc then Moz would have declared them a miss and that’s a fact

May 28, 2020, 13:53

Except Moffie would go one step further and claim the player not only missed the tackle but got "run over" as well.

May 28, 2020, 14:02

And then there is the peculiar issue of the 2015 RWC semi final between SA and NZ where we lost by two points.

Was the loss because of the three points lost due to Matfield’s penalty, or was it due to the seven points lost due to Lood’s sloppy defence early in the game?

May 28, 2020, 14:53

This is hilarious. He attacks Mostert concerning supposed missed tackles, yet defended VIDEO EVIDENCE of a missed tackle exposing Lood, he with the tackle radius of a bottle cap at the speed of a snail on diazepam. ESPN didn't pick it up, and that was the poor dear's only and rather weak defence. 

He also rejected the VIDEO EVIDENCE of Steph missing most of his defensive engagements in the Wellington win (a common occurrence in all but a few tests).

You want some "FACTS", here are some facts:

  1. Steph cannot defend or read play. FACT.
  2. Lood cannot defend. He is slow, ponderous, unskilled, lethargic and clumsy. FACT. 
  3. Mostert is one of our best and most accurate defenders. FACT. 

May 28, 2020, 15:55

Aug your takes are about as accurate as Moz’s and filled with just as much childish prejudice

Here are some facts:

PSDT and Lood are world class

Mostert at best a handy provincial player who should only ever have played blindside thanks to his laziness off the field

FACTS

May 28, 2020, 15:58

Early on in the game vs near the end of the game is a no brainer in terms of fault

May 28, 2020, 16:46

Would be interesting to see which SA locks over the last decade have the best win percentage at SR and Test levels.

Totally betting on memory but my money is on Mostert.

May 28, 2020, 17:22

More proof.....look at Bongi’s tackle on Lawes  when he got injured at 20.03 which was exactly the same thing. Fully brought to ground but not held. Here are Bongi’s stats with no missed tackles.....the rule is uniformly applied and is consistent with Rugby Law.



M MbonambiH0302

May 28, 2020, 18:51

 Mostert at best a handy provincial player who should only ever have played blindside thanks to his laziness off the field “

Which begs the question: “If Rassie was such a brilliant coach, then why did he drag such a low level plodder to an elite top level tournament like the RWC?”.

The only reason could have been that he saw something that all the wannabe experts missed. Even after he won the RWC. 

May 28, 2020, 18:53

That goal line stand was epic.....unbelievable really. Having Vunipola with at least 4 charges at the line from inside the 5 and stopping him each time was truly heroic. It will be part of our rugby lore 100 years from now.

May 28, 2020, 22:20

"That goal line stand was epic.....unbelievable really. Having Vunipola with at least 4 charges at the line from inside the 5 and stopping him each time was truly heroic. It will be part of our rugby lore 100 years from now."

Stuff of legend...carefully cultivated and crafted in under 2 years...remarkable...

For me it was something more than previous RWC wins...not just our's...all of them. 95 was special in another way...2019 was more "guts and glory" to me.


May 28, 2020, 22:37

Bullshit nowhere in the law does it say a tackle is effected if said player is able to continue forward, which is exactly what Tuilagi did. A tackle is effected if you bring a player down and he stays down

With Ford is was a straightforward one on one miss by Mostert. Mostert gets a hard on Ford who slips past him but thankfully is tackled by another Bok

Mostert missed two tackles - it’s both a fact and beyond debate

May 28, 2020, 22:40

Rassie selected Mostert initially as a starter but clearly saw through him dropping him to the bench in favour of the far better and more physical Lood

Rassie took Mostert to the WC as he knew the system and had been part of the set up. You don’t bring in a rookie pre WC

It’s obvious that Mostert is slipping out of the picture. My guess is we won’t see him in the match 23 moving forward

May 28, 2020, 22:50

Geez how can you be happy with Lomp.....Mostert took him down at least 3 times in the game, Faf stopped him dead ....head on. But old Lomp gets tapped by Vunipola and he’s toast, walking off the field dragging his arm like a wimp. If ever body language could take a team down that could have done it.


Mostert no tackles missed...it’s official.....ankle taps are not missed tackles, your opponent getting up doesn’t constitute a missed tackle especially when your own player(Marx) takes you out.

You came, you looked, you got it horribly wrong. Not for the first time.

May 28, 2020, 23:15

Lood is far far superior to little Mostert, it’s not even close. He is better in every department of the game. I know it but more importantly Rassie does

Every player gets injured

Mostert missed 2 tackles and that’s a FACT

Telling us ESPN is official is a joke

ESPN will be taken with a pinch of salt moving forward thanks to their blatant Mostert mistake

May 29, 2020, 00:03

Splattered by Jerome Kaino in 2015, splattered by Vunipola in 2019.....Lomp is a lock that keeps getting run over by loosies in big games. The only Mostert  mistake is you not getting the definition of a tackle.....he brought the opponents down....Dud allowed them to offload and Lomp got run over by them.


May 29, 2020, 00:16

Kak he half brought Tuilagi down only for Tuilagi to get up and continue forward - that’s not a tackle. Had no one else been about to stop Tuilagi after the Mostert miss, Tuilagi might have scored

Against Ford it was a straight forward one on one. Ford steps in, Mostert gets a hand on him but Ford slips past with ease. Straightforward miss by Mostert. Again had no one been around to mop up Mostert’s mess, Ford could have scored

Two tackles missed and that’s a fact

Mostert spends his life getting bashed backwards both with ball in hand or trying to make a smothering upright tackle. He is fine going low as little strength is required

Lood is bigger, much stronger and a far better rugby player than Mostert. It’s not even close. Lood is some rugby writers choice as lock for team of the WC, Mostert never gets a mention.

Etzebeth, Lood, RG and PSDT are all genuine test locks - all physically up to the task. Mostert is a sad pretender, evidenced by his relegation to the bench.

Rassie knows his stuff. My guess is we won’t see Mostert in the Bok side again. Here’s hoping anyway as he is a physical liability

I ask the question again, why would you select a 110kg lock in this day and age?

May 29, 2020, 01:16

Nope he takes down Tuilagi from behind at which point Marx falls on top of him, making it difficult for him to keep his hold....great tackle actually. Likewise Ford sidesteps Pollard, Mostert has to react instantly from behind and gets Ford going to the turf...he crashes into  the Beast’s knees. Two great reaction tackles..

Your problem Dave is you have always equated size with quality, and thus totally miss the skill element.

But make my day, show me the fools who selected Lomp for the Team of the WC.

May 29, 2020, 04:29

Mozart always pretends he knows better than everybody else what happened in team selection and that really is laughable,    He moaned about the missed tackle of Kaino in the semi in 2015 - the one problem is that De Jager has had no rest games in the WC because Meyer's selections were  farcical,    

Players like Matfield, Steyn, Alberts  and De Villiers should never have been in the squad and there were 4 other unusable passengers as well.   No successful  team ever goes through the WC with only 23 playable players and 8 passengers in the side, which caused problems for both the team performances  and player performances,   To blame individual players for the hopeless coaching disaster Meyer was in squad selection is really laughable,   

In the famous semi-final in 2015 the players were tired and the fact is that the game plan used during  the WC was a farce,    In the semi there was NO case where the Springboks threatened to score a try, it was a total disaster,  

Now back to the 2019 WC - with key player like Du Toit, De Jager  and De Allende being key players that contributed massively to the Springbok victories in games,   Their comments showed no knowledge of rugby coupled to total prejudice,                    

May 29, 2020, 06:24

Nope I don’t think I know better than everybody else, but I’m willing to go with ESPN over you and Dave without hesitation. As for Lomp needing a game off to tackle Kaino....that has to be the most feeble excuse ever.

May 29, 2020, 08:43

Does any retired fellow care to investigate which has been SA's most successful lock via win percentage over the last decade..?

May 29, 2020, 10:05

Other times you do NOT go with ESPN Stats or go with selected portions of stats, or worse still you manufacture your own stats and then claim they are correct,  Again you lie about the situation, In that test De Jager made 14 tackles and missed 2,   The report on the try of Kaino  reads as follows:-

"Wow, first try of the game! Boks have been rattled back and Kaino has notched the first five points down the right flank. The All Blacks have eventually managed to stretch the Boks line and some nice handling from Kaino keeps the ball in play and Lood de Jager's last ditch tackle can't reach the flanker who plants down in the corner"

Even though he missed the tackle on Kaino - he still made a  tackle every 3,9 minutes h actually played, while the count for Matfield  the count was a tackle every 6 [;us minutes per tackle.  Aside from that Matfield buggered up the first lineout he jum[ed in and then made a terrible error that could have changed the outcome by causing a turnaround penalty through rank stupidity,

In the case of the Kaino try - where were the Springbok loosies in the whole AB attack?  .      .    

May 29, 2020, 10:37

@Plum. No need to be retired Plum. You just needs to call in ESPN Statsguru. You may experience some pushback from Saff, though. 

I just need to figure out how to sort them in order of winning percentages. I’ll leave that up to you. I have included all Bok locks for starters. You can filter them out any way you want. 

http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=won;position=8;result=1;result=2;size=100;team=5;template=results;type=player

May 29, 2020, 11:00

In the case of the Kaino try - where were the Springbok loosies in the whole AB attack?

If you want to make a point about the loosies, make it. Asking this type of question when you can clearly see all three loosies on the footage is stupid. What do you want to say about where they were? Duane is on the opposite side of the ruck with no hope of ever getting across after having just assisted Schalk's tackle on the Abs bust through the middle, Schalk trapped on the ground in the ruck, Louw defending inside Lood. Tell us what you think that means.

May 29, 2020, 11:06

@Pakie. And then, if ou Maaikie is suggesting that Lood was let down by his loosies in 2015, one might similarly ask where the loosies were in the Mostert tackles in 2019? What’s good for the goose....

May 29, 2020, 12:47

Oh what utter horse shit

Tuilagi gets up and continues forward therefore missed tackle by Mostert. You are speaking utter shit

Pollard has nothing to do with Ford, he is covering outside Mostert, Ford cuts inside Mostert, and brushes past Mosterts feeble attempt at a tackle. Again you are speaking utter shit

Two obvious missed tackles by Mostert completely missed by useless ESPN

I don’t equate strength with size what crap

One certainty is that Mostert has NEVER ever shown a single sign of strength on the field, not even at provincial level

He is light for a lock and weak.

I have no issue with his skill, energy and heart

He is just not physical enough for a test lock - not even close. He is a physical liability in the engine room

He missed two tackles in the final and that is a fact. You can’t escape the visual evidence or hide behind the joke that is ESPN

May 29, 2020, 13:27

ESPN missed nothing.

May 29, 2020, 14:10

From 2000, ten or more tests.

Overall Figures

Player             Span     Mat-Start-Sub-Pts-Tries-ConvPens-Dr-Won-Lost-Draw-%

V Matfield 2001-2015 125 119 6 35 7 0 0 0 79 46 0 63.20

JP Botha         2002-2014 84 77 7 35 7 0 0 0 63 21 0 75.00

E Etzebeth 2012-2019 80 75 5 15 3 0 0 0 51 29 0 63.75

PR vd Merwe 2010-2015 35 12 23 5 1 0 0 0 25 10 0 71.42

L de Jager 2014-2019 43 29 14 25 5 0 0 0 24 19 0 55.81

FJ Mostert 2016-2019 34 21 13 5 1 0 0 0 21 13 0 61.76

PA vd Berg 2000-2007 38 18 20 10 2 0 0 0 20 18 0 52.63

A Bekker 2008-2012 27 10 17 5 1 0 0 0 18 9 0 66.66

GJ Muller 2006-2011 24 10 14 0 0 0 0 0 15 9 0 62.50

DJ Rossouw 2005-2011 24 14 10 20 4 0 0 0 15 9 0 62.50

PS du Toit 2013-2018 25 11 14 20 4 0 0 0 14 11 0 56.00

RG Snyman 2018-2019 19 8 11 5 1 0 0 0 13 6 0 68.42

PJJ Kruger 2012-2013 16 12 4 0 0 0 0 0 12 4 0 75.00

CS Boome 2000-2003 13 5 8 0 0 0 0 0 8 5 0 61.53

MG Andrews 2000-2001 15 15 0 10 2 0 0 0 7 8 0 46.66

J Labuschagne 2000-2002 11 10 1 0 0 0 0 0 4 7 0 36.36

May 29, 2020, 15:08

Ah so Vlag are you fucking stupid enough to tell me Mostert never missed those two tackles???

May 29, 2020, 15:11

I see absolutely no point in those stats for the locks as one would swear a single lock defined the outcome of a game

What’s the bloody point

If we took those stats as defining, Mark Andrews would be a shit lock!!!

May 29, 2020, 15:23

“  Posted by: Saffex (18668 posts)

May 29, 2020, 15:08

Ah so Vlag are you fucking stupid enough to tell me Mostert never missed those two tackles???

Nope. I am saying that ESPN missed nothing and they did nothing wrong. 

BTW. I agree with you that the stats does not mean much, since the reported stats are not even really stats. It is nothing but a very small portion of  the total sum of the raw data that is available. Real stats is an interpretation of the sum total of all the raw data. 

The number of kicks, for example, tells you nothing, bar how many times a player has kicked the ball. No mention of the field position, the outcome of the kick, the reason for the kick, whether it was a defensive kick or an attacking kick or a kick to gain field, nothing. Just the number of kicks. That’s it. And from that you have “experts” claiming that someone has kicked the ball away the entire game. 

May 29, 2020, 15:46

Well that makes no sense. If Mostert did miss two tackles how did ESPN make no mistake?

May 29, 2020, 16:25

Bottom line is - stats provide zero context

It looks impressive when a player gains 50m in a game. It does not tell you that for 40m of those 50m said player was running down the touch line unopposed

May 29, 2020, 18:00

“ Posted by: Saffex (18670 posts)

May 29, 2020, 15:46

Well that makes no sense. If Mostert did miss two tackles how did ESPN make no mistake?

OK, let me stop taking the piss. It is not ESPN’s stats per se.

They have a license from Opta Sportsdata to use and publish some of their data. Opta is one of the biggest sports analysis companies in the world and many sports and media setups all over the world use their data. Almost all of the international teams, including the All Blacks and the Boks. All the big football teams. Their “real” stats are way more comprehensive. 

In 2011/12 it was possible to download much more comprehensive stats on spreadsheets directly from their website. Then one day I discovered that I couldn’t access the spreadsheets anymore. I have their London offices a call and asked them what the problem was. They told me that it was a slip up and wasn’t supposed to happen, because only registered license holders were supposed to have access to it. They accidentally opened it up for the public. Everything, including the footage, everything was opened by accident. 

I took a chance and tried to twist their arm, saying that we were just a few enthusiasts on a small forum, could they allow us to access the spreadsheets? They said sure, we just need to purchase a licence at £12,000 p.a. 

They have large teams with very complicated tech that they use to analyse the games. The real stuff would probably have the “missed tackles” but in a bracket that ESPN do not have, it you could put it like that. As I said, the data that ESPN is a fraction of the real McCoy. As I said, I saw the real stuff in 2011/12 and can just imagine what they produce nowadays.

https://www.optasports.com/




May 29, 2020, 18:15

@Saffex. Check this case study of Opta assisting Gloucester with a project:

https://www.optasportspro.com/case-study/interview-with-darren-lewis-gloucester-rugby-head-of-performance-analysis/

May 30, 2020, 20:05

Ah ok Vlag I get you

May 30, 2020, 20:08

I’ve forwarded your link to my son who is a student of the game these days

 
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