I wouldn't start Manie against any team that matters.
I'd start Sacha and have Pollard on the bench.
That way old hand gets to watch the game and can come on to close it out in the last 20 if needed.
And then Pollard also gets to watch Sacha and mentor him.
I would drop Manie from the squad and have Willemse as back-up.
...but nooooo, Manie played well against the worst Test team in the world so he is for sure good enough, right? Let's no talk about how he almost lost us the RC last year.
Both are class acts - Sacha is 1, Pollard 2 and Libbok 3
Manie Passes well down the line and puts the back line players into space but his kicking is not really improving.
I find that he sometimes rushes his kick to poles to much. Or he pulls it instead of just following thru.
...and his defence is a major problem.
What defence?
A 10/12 axis of Pollard/Delande neuters any thought of the backline going wide.
I am a fan of Libbok, but his pole kicking is not test standard. Their are also question marks over his play in poor conditions or extremely tight test matches.
In Australia in 2 years, I would rather have Libok at 10 over Pollard, assuming he has learnt to kick for poles by then. He needs a new kicking coach.
Hard to say what Pollard’s status will be in 2 years….but in sport there are winners and losers. Pollard hasn’t put a foot wrong in 2 WC finals. Libbok has consistently blown it in big matches, lost his starting place at WC 2003 because of it.
The only player I recall that became a pressure kicker after earlier failures is Percy, who only got there by completely changing his technique making it much tighter.
Given the choice I would always pick a winner over a talented loser
S B
A 10/12 axis of Pollard/Delande neuters any thought of the backline going wide.
BS In te frst test against Italy the ball went wde 90% of the time - what test did you watch> Aside from haat De Allende had a try-assist and scored one himself, That was absent with the 12 donkey they had in the 2nd test.
Not sure if any of you folks watched the Junior Springbok team in action.
But the Junior Bok #10 is a gifted player and really impressed me.
Good boot, converted some long range three pointers, can tackle and is blessed with speed
Time to think about getting rid of Dave's third choice #10 and get this young man groomed (for when Pollard retires) as a back up before the next RWC.
The Junior team have some great talent that must be introduced to the next level asap.
Libbok is far better than Moyo
Big lad, with a great boot but offered very little in terms of setting up his backs or showing any individual creativity on attack
Looks a solid player that won’t set the world alight at senior level
Solid at best, nothing special
Solid is better than fragile
If Pollard was not called up for the play-offs in last RWC the Springboks would have been eliminated in the Quarter finals by France.
Libbok is not and never has been a good or a great international flyhalf.
Currie Cup rugby is perhaps his level at best.
Absolute bullshit his creativity at 10 is second to none.
His defence is on par with the likes of Russell, Marcus Smith, McKenzie, Jalibert etc
His kicking for poles was shit in the WC but has been spot on of late
Libbok is pure class
If Manie wasn't playing against France, we probably would have been too far behind for Pollars's kicks to even matter...best distributor in the game by far...Manie has his failings, but so do Polly and Sascha...Bok 10 is not even close to being settled.
Spot on Draad you can’t coach the attacking creativity Manie has - it should be embraced
Only a bunch of conservative fools would be negative about Manie
Well these conservative fools have very valid criticism….and Draad yes Manie played a role in us winning vs France.
But the problem is that he couldn’t sustain that right to the end and pull us thru.
It took Pollie with the ice in his veins and his stable play to finish the business at hand and pull us thru.
Pollie oozes BMT and Manie although talented, is sometimes when it matters most, to erratic.
The Same counts for Sacha. Both these players needs to still fully mature within themselves and be totally confident and committed in there own abilities.
Libbok vs France
Scoring …..2 conversions/no tries/ no try assists
Attacking…..2 passes, 0 offloads/ 32 metres in 3 runs with zero clean breaks and zero defenders beaten which means he had clear space for his metres.
Defense ….2 turnovers conceded/ 5 tackles made/5 tackles missed
Kicking …..2 kicks made/ 1 missed…..66%
…….
Departs at minute 45 with France up 22 by 19. He wasn’t involved in the Arendse or Kolbe tries. In the Dud Allende try he kicked an awful cross kick Woki was in position to secure but he knocked it backwards into Dud Allende’s hands. Dud at top pace was caught from behind by the Frog flank and then fell over unopposed from the breakdown. So no good Libbok involvement there.
He got no try assists, which on review is right, so I can’t agree that we wouldn’t have been in touch but for Libbok.
The most important Rugby Cup to win is the RWC as it is against the best teams in the world not the rest.
Pollard was not selected at first due to a injury, at the time Rassie made his selection knowing that Pollard was still recuperation.
If Pollard was fit Manie would never have been selected.
So why did Rassie replace him if he is as great as you folks believe?
Pollard converted kicks that won us the quarters, the semi finals and the final.
.
Whahaha Moz swatting the falsehoods away like they're slow and annoying mozzies.
Manie put up two kicks that ended up in tries. They were midfield nothing kicks that we scored off of due to Eben slapping one down and another created by a smart shove from Arendse.
Yes, rugby can become a blur because there is so much going on.
But there's no excuse for not knowing how all the tries were scored in the French game. We've all watched it so many times now.
This is most of the problem Moz. We're arguing against emotion and false memories.
Dave says Manie has been good since the WC, while he almost lost us the Argentina game last September...and that very nearly cost us the RC. How did he do that? After some horrendous defending, he misses a sitter. It's the Manie playbook.
...and Sacha is a better distributor.
Those that don’t get the value of Manie don’t know their rugby - Fact
Its the same clowns who keep telling us how shit de Allende, PSDT, Lood and Kolisi are
Fucking clueless
Sorry to get under your skin Foul Mouth.
But we are all entitled to our opinions.
Plus you are not the expert on rugby that you dream you are.
Get a life man and chill out.
Those that don’t get the value of Manie don’t know their rugby - Fact
Hahahaha….funny. The value of him missing half his tackles, the value of him losing the ball twice, the value of him making his kicks until he has to make a kick.
In a game where there is supposedly no space Dave religiously supports a guy whose only value is in space…..I’m feeling slightly nauseous, the world is tilting.
Well Moz you can’t argue that the man can pass very well and especially in tight engagements with the opposition.
He is not only good in space, his excellent passing creates space. That is something very little players can do successfully.
His abilities to also create try scoring opportunities, is not bad…
Everyone in life even all of us, has good and bad points….. as long as the negative don’t override the positive.
True M but so could Jantjies. Libbok is an elegant player, but his record in big matches, including URC knockouts, is the problem.
I rate Elton way ahead of Manie. He was a very solid kicker, could defend his channel nicely and was the pivot in probably most potent attacking franchise we've had since readmission.
Jantjies made a few crucial mistakes at the wrong times but could go 10 games without a single error. Unfortunately for him, Bok rugby wasn't looking to ever attack so he was like a fish out of water. They picked because of his ability get the backs firing, and then insisted that he never get them firing. The typical low IQ South African stuff.
Anwyay, Manie can't go 20 minutes without screwing something up.
I bet you that Sacha has been told the same thing. "In va Boks we don't try to score...we kick from va red, orange, yellow, blue, green, violet, pink zones always...and ven we chip kick from va green zone...orite, Sachie"
Anyway, I'm glad Akker is back. The Bulls will dominate this year. They're gonna be rampant and demolish the rest of the SA teams with balanced rugby. I actually can't wait for the URC. Gonna be interesting to see how Pollard is used there.
57,104 posts
A while ago I believe Dave put a phto according to which he claimed that Libbok has the physical built to play at flyhalf, In comparison to that have a look at the following video clip of Sacha and see why he is phsically a much stronger player than Libbok:-
https://www.facebook.com/reel/651817204096107