James Dalton on Jake White

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Mar 20, 2020, 12:19

Dalton confirms what most think

Former Springbok hooker James Dalton says he’s not sure whether the Bulls would make the right call to bring former national coach Jake White on board.

White has been in talks with the Bulls and reports have suggested that he is the favourite to be appointed as Alan Zondagh’s successor as director of rugby.

White and Dalton’s history dates back to Jeppe High School for Boys, where the former played in the first team coached by White.

“It’s worrying that they’re considering bringing White back (to South Africa). Our rugby is healthy at the moment and do you really want to bring someone into the system who’s going to clash with Rassie (Erasmus, SA Rugby’s director of rugby) and the new structures, just because he thinks he’s Jake White who won the World Cup in 2007?” Dalton said, as quoted by Netwerk24.

“Jake is not a people’s person. He’s an autocrat. I’m not saying he’s not a good coach, but if you look at the World Cup group of 2007, then there are probably only about six players that [still] want something to do with him. You’d think here is a coach who will be admired for his achievements, but the players from that generation want nothing to do with him,” Dalton stressed.

Dalton, who played 43 Tests for the Springboks between 1994 and 2002, added that he felt South African rugby was in a good space following the World Cup win last year.

“I’ll put my head on a block to say with the structures we’ve got in place, and with the local and international players we’ve got, that South African rugby is in a very strong position. I’d even go as far as saying that I believe South Africa can also win the next World Cup.”

Mar 20, 2020, 12:56

South Africa isn't professional or emotionaly intelligent enough for Jake White. They like to be coddled and pandered to. I'd like all SA teams to be handled like NFL players. Maybe 1% would survive the scrutiny.

As I recall, good old James was the same man guilty of domestic abuse and threatened his wife with a gun. Top bloke he is. 

Mar 20, 2020, 13:13

Jake White always came across as a complete prick who’s Bok stint as a coach started off well until year 3 and 4 where he had run out of ideas and his record leading up to the WC was so poor that he was on the verge of getting sacked. Instead of sacking him they brought in Eddie Jones who of course saved Jake and good old Jake has taken all the credit for the WC win.

Dalton is saying it like it is, good on him

Mar 20, 2020, 13:18

Jake didn't need Eddie and in fact, it was Jake who contributed significantly in getting Jones fired from the Aussie job. Eddie wasn't the crutch that Nienaber is to Rassie. 

Mar 20, 2020, 14:26

James is in need of therapy. Landed on is head a few tvmes to many.

Jaske needs the backing of top management. He is a disciplinarian who does not tolerate loafers or entitled senior players. These types tend to rebel. So it must be made clear they do as Jake says or ship out.

Mar 20, 2020, 15:05

Of course Jake did not need Eddie with his 30% win record leading up to the WC. Gavin Rich in his book was of course lying when he said useless Jake was on the verge of being sacked in that WC year.

Aug not only are you fucking stupid you also speak a load of utter shit

What coaching credentials does Nienaber have you ignorant twit?

Biggest load of shit I have read in ages

Fact is Jake is both a prick and an average coach, his 60 odd % win record as Bok coach evidences that unless that % works for you

Mar 20, 2020, 15:10

Being bored without any sport being allowed  even world wide - it is an ideal time to discuss what happened in the past - especially since our local "experts" AO and Mozart are  so totally out of connection with reality as to rugby.   So lets o back in history as to coaching a bit and then look at the present scenario. 

Jake White   

It is obviously necessary  to look at White/s career as test coach and what happened subsequently.   White as a coach had a very limited game plan in which for instance backline usage was extremely limited,    As Dave said his plan worked wonders in his first to years as a coach - ie in 2004 and 2005,   However, the game plan was easily countered and by 2006 White ran out of ideas as to coaching and the Springbok performances went south,  , 

White then realized that something was amiss with his coaching and in 2007 he arranged  for the appointment of Eddie Jones to improve the situation,  The fact that AO claims that the appointment of Jones was not really necessary is just one big joke .   Why would White insist on Jones being appointed if everything was in order as he alleged,   It was not and one of the Springbok backline players of the time said that Jones advised them on backline play that they never learned from any SA coach before, 

After being Springbok coach - White coached the Brumbies in  2012 and 2013.  They were remarkably successful in those two years after being in the doldrums in 2011,    In that time the Brumbies had Larkham as the backline coach and due to the team playing a fifteen man game success followed,  However, White like previously with SARU had a poor relationship with  Australian Rugby and when he was not appointed as Aussie Head Coach he exploded and breached his contract with the Brumbies,

As to Dalton's statement on the issue, there was confirmation that relationships may be sour between White and team members who played in 2007 in the WC.  John Smit as CEO of Sharks Rugby admitted in a subsequent statement that he made a huge mistake in firing Plumtree, but lets leave that for what happened in 2014 in the case of the Sharks,   White was appointed by the Sharks with the support of Smit - but the relationship soured afterwards,   It became so bad that White was effectively fired by the Sharks after his first year as a coach,    In that year there was disunity within the team between a few adherents in the team totally loyal to White and the majority of the squad members.   The players gave the Sharks two alternatives, namely -

*    if White is retained as coach they will not sign any contract extensions with the Sharks; but

*    if White is released from his contract they will resign their contracts/ 

In fact none of players whose contracts came up for renewal was prepared to sign the renewal  contracts if White remains as coach,   

White had a similar problem in his relationship with the owner of Montpellier,   He insisted on the team fielding a host of SA and Australian players - while neglecting local players - with a negative effect on public support for the team.   His contract was not renewed after the second year and White went off to Japan.  

On the whole it is clear that White had a poor relationship with his employers at SARU and Australian Rugby, but also a negative  relationship with most of the players he was coaching.  

That worries me a lot - what impact would his appointment have on the Bulls.   The majority owners of the Bulls Franchise - Rupert and Motsepe - would not put up with any nonsense from White.   On the national level as Bulls Director of Rugby would have to report to Erasmus as SARU Director of Rugby.   Will that work out - based on what happen in the past - I think not.   Maybe by now White has learned his lesson - that is not to be the "prick" Dave referred to,

Rassie Erasmus

Our two local "experts" - and in particular Mozart and AO - were attacking Erasmus from the day he was appointed as Director of Rugby,   He is compared to the "brilliance" of Meyer and Coetzee a poor selection.  as Springbok coach.   After the RC won by the Springboks in 2019 they made the wildly laughable claim that the  Springboks who lost all matches in the RC in 2015 actually performed better than the 2019 team did.  The same BS came out of the two mentioned after the WC in Japan.   

When after reading all the BS those two routinely spout on site,  I thought I would ask a top class former Springbok how he views Erasmus as a coach.   This guy in his youth played for the Maties and was coached by Dr Danie Craven at the time.   Craven was a top rugby brain and that was how he described Craven as a coach.  

When asked about Erasmus this ex-Springbok said there is only one word  to describe Erasmus as Springbok coach and that word is "brilliant".   His selections were brilliant, his relationship with the players is "brilliant" and the way he inspires players to always produce their best in games is "brilliant".

Of all coaches this ex-Springbok came across in his career and studied coaches subsequent to his retirement he rated Craven and Erasmus as equals  and the rest  since 2000 were all not in the same category,  

I would rather believe what that celebrated ex-Springbok said than what the present two clown site members entertain us with,  But then - keep it up  Mozart and AO - in this dark period of coronavirus we need entertainment badly and you are a prime source of that,         :             




Mar 20, 2020, 15:11

Jake and Mallet are both very good coaches, disciplinarians, school teachers....and unfortunately a bit too stubborn and egotistical for their own good. With them there will always be friction that will kill team spirit in the long run...both of them are short term wunderkinder, but it all goes to pieces sooner rather than later.

Mar 20, 2020, 15:42

Mallet was a very good coach, I would not include Jake in that category. Jake was middle of the road.

He is below Kitch, Mallet and Rassie, probably on par with Meyer and above the likes of Straueli, PDV, Coetzee, Maarkgraaf and Viljoen.

Poor Ian Mac would have been in that top group had the poor man had the freedom to choose his squad. Imagine coaching a side selected by others.

A great coach is one who knows the art of the game and is a great player manager. Rassie is a good example of this. Rugby astute and great with his team.

Mar 20, 2020, 16:15

The good coaches unlocks the potential of the players. Great coaches get the team to exceed the sum of the parts. Rassie...and by extension Nienaber and the rest of the gang. 

Carel dup had an eye for talent and he could coach well enough, but he couldn't build a team...Sir Alex in sokker ...( I know you lot like to call it football, but I prefer the Afrikaans term...voetbal is rugby) ...was special, but I don't know too much about the round ball game...

Kak sinstruktuur, live with it. :-)

Mar 20, 2020, 17:14

You don't necessarily have to have played the game.... to be a great coach

Being a genuine people person can take you a lot further as a coach, than just knowing the rules of the game

Mar 21, 2020, 23:12

Poor Ian Mac would have been in that top group had the poor made had the freedom to choose his squad. Imagine coaching a side selected by others.

Absolutely Saffex, I've spoken to ex Sharks players like Pieter Muller and Jeremy Thomson and I asked them both...who was the best coach in SA rugby at the time and they both said Ian Mac, without a shadow of doubt. They said that that Luyt messed up when he fired Mac...Mac was busy building steps in young players and fighting provincialism and getting a young side that would unite as a team and the building blocks were in place. But Luyt knew bugger all about rugby and was an extremely impatient businessman.

Kitch Christie inherited a lot of Mac's groundwork and Kitch was a good peoples person and a good strategist. Poor old Mac was never rightly seen as such by the ignorant public but acknowledged by the players (especially the Sharks) and was making progress with players from the other provinces as well.

Ian Mac was a brilliant coach but thick as a brick Louis Luyt destroyed his career but apparently, Ian was always a humble man and gave a lot of credit to Kitch.

Unfinished work is painful but the seeds were sown by Mac...I'm sure Kitch benefited and appreciated it.

Louis Luyt was an asshole of note.

Mar 21, 2020, 23:32

Agreed Seb but unfortunately the real measure of Mac as a test coach will never be known for the simple reason he had no say in the make up of his side, which goes against every fibre of being a coach.

Imagine me coaching a side that included Morne Steyn as my flyhalf!!!

Mar 21, 2020, 23:49

In those days Saffex, provincialism was a big problem which fortunately today appears to have been defeated. Since the introduction of super rugby and professionalism that bias has diminished because the Currie Cup rugby competition plays second fiddle to Supers.

Players are traded between all unions and the stronger the franchise is generally the better players and coaches are purchased.

Having said that Ian Mac coached probably the best Sharks squad ever, probably as good as the present coach has got them...sadly because of the virus we'll never know.

But I'm inclined to respect the opinion of actual players like Pieter who was one of SA's greatest centres ever, at least in defence than I would of any layman.

Old Shark players who were under Mac certainly can vouch that as a fact.

Ian would have made a good test coach if he was not interfered with and given more time.

Rassie also needed time to fix the mess that AC had left. Patience is a virtue in everything including team building and Rome was never built in a day.

Mar 22, 2020, 00:05

I really liked Mac as a coach, he was great with the Sharks

Mar 22, 2020, 12:08

Too much ignorance being sprouted on this coach apart from comments about how astute a coach Rassie is which I told all ya quakd years and years ago was the case. Yes when all you Jonny come latdlies were mocking Rassie about the roof and lights etc. 

EVERY side Jake coached improved. The Sharks udet Lardy John failed to support the coach and the franchise suffered. 

After building a great team and winning the RWC  Jake got fired. We then got the biggest buffoon ever PDV. Some oaks here have no idea how that set us back. 

Jake if backed by top managemetwoud lift the Bulls out of the doldrums. 

A very silly comment was made about Carel du Plessis. We saw the team grow under his coaching. That 60 odd point thrashing of Australia was pure magic. 

Mallet took Carel's team on a record unbroken run. The reason Carel lost the Lions series was shocking goal kicking. 

Unfortunately many oaks have little to no rugby acumen. 

Further anybody thinking Mallet would not have been an asset coaching a Super Rugy franchise is being silly. Ditto Dr Brendan Venter another's acute rugby brain wasted by the buffoons in charge of SA franchises. 

Apart from losing top players overseas due to the very weak Rand the lack of intellect at the top is the next biggest problem. 

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