It was the mighty midgets that won us the World Cup

Forum » Rugby » It was the mighty midgets that won us the World Cup

Nov 19, 2023, 15:07

South Africa is often known for fielding big bruising forwards and in the days of De Villiers and Fourie, Equally as big backs that could bash the door down. Then throw in Frans Steyn, JP Pietersen and each back line player was over 1.90 cm and over 100kgs. Only Habana was the smallest at 180 and Percy was 182. Both were above 90kgs. 

Fast forward to the present. 

We attacked with Arendse and Kolbe, both under 178, then we had Le Roux at the back, not the biggest player either, but has a bit of height. 

Then look at Faf De Klerk, Deon Fourie and all of a sudden we have 5 players that are under 180 both in the pack and forwards. 

Now we have Nohambe, we is sure skillful but standing at 164, is it a step too far for a diminutive player. 

South Africa is known to physical, how on earth did we sell that one, making teams think that we have big bruising players. 

Is down to the likes of PSDT and Etzebeth along with Marx and De Allende bruising them and not to mention Vermeulen. 

Maybe Rassie has unlocked a balance that brings all shapes and sizes into his team

Nov 19, 2023, 15:19

Correction it was Pollard that won us the WC….and Dud Allende bruised nobody.

Nov 19, 2023, 16:32


DDA bruised an entire country....'s pride in their beloved Springboks.

Nov 19, 2023, 16:41

I see poor Mozzzz is still having a hissy fit when anybody praises Allende. The clown bought into the BS of his side kick Doos the biggest mampara this board has seen. 

Doos said Allende was weak. Only a nutjob would make that assertion. Keep trashing Allende and making an abject fool of yourself. Seems you can't be helped. 

Unfortunately the largely sane Plum has be sucked into this BS.

Our center pair did us proud. Best defensive center pairing in world rugby. 

Nov 19, 2023, 16:42

Kolbe's charge down against France could be argued as the tournament-defining moment, as much as Pollard's penalty kick in the semi-final.

The game against France was so marginal, that was a magic moment that was one in a million. How often do we see this in rugby?

Pollard's kick was good - especially at that time in the match - but it was something other kickers could do. Kolbe had done something that was unique.

The defense of these 2 small wingers is exceptional. It works well for the umbrella rush defense where the wingers have to be able to mark a larger space.

Nov 19, 2023, 16:59

True….but all the contributions of all the players playing for us and against us added up to essentially a points stalemate. That stalemate was broken in our favor 3 critical times because Pollard kicked better than our opponents kickers. 

Now maybe if Kolbe hadn’t made all those contributions we wouldn’t even have been in a points stalemate. There is no way of judging that. 

What we can say is if Pollard kicked like Mo’unga and Ramos we wouldn’t be WC winners.

This is a simple proposition that should be self evident.

Nov 19, 2023, 18:12

Don't forget our part time hooker in 37 year old Deon Fourie, how on earth did he make the world cup let alone playing for 77 min in a bruising encounter where our pack held its own. He is really short and not even the heaviest hooker. Probably 20 kg lighter than bongi. 

Don't forget Kwagga, such a fierce defender.  Puts his body on the line. Standing at 1.80 and not even above 95kg. 

I'm not into boxing or fighting sports, but everyone knows their are weight classes 

10kg make a massive difference in a physical sport.

Then you have Kolbe and Arendse that is probably not above 80kg against some of the biggest wingers that is easy 20 kg heavier than them..

Nov 19, 2023, 18:34

Player of the year Savea,  95k

Nov 19, 2023, 21:27

Actually Savea weighs 103kg

Nov 20, 2023, 06:04

Kolbe's charge down against France could be argued as the tournament-defining moment

What about his try saving tackle in the same game?

Nov 20, 2023, 06:13

As a matter of interest....Brent Russell.......came along when size was all important, was never going to cut it back then but probably will now. No-one knew how to handle his presence.

As for wee players tackling bigger players....have a look at wee George Smith cutting down Bakkies.

Nov 20, 2023, 06:49

I wasn't drinking the Kool-Aid, Beeno.

It's me wot poured it.

I think I was one of the first here to bemoan what DDA turned into. Everyone liked his breakout season/s at the Stormers. But that guy was long gone only a couple of years later. And one gets the sense that DDA himself feels it. He always looks insecure and unsure to me. Likely the root of his brain freezes.

Nov 20, 2023, 08:32

Vain imagination Plum. Big problem is you are ignoring his considerable strengths which so many see. You guys trashing Allende are a small fringe minority and rightly so. 

The idea that he is hesitant and uncertain is a fantasy. The Bok backline stopped the best attacking backline in the World. 

Nov 20, 2023, 08:33

If Allende was as bad as you suggest Rassie would have dropped him. 

Nov 20, 2023, 09:20

DA has been huge for the Boks

As the very astute Will Greenwood said

You stop DA you stop the Boks

Nov 20, 2023, 11:10

Ok, let's walk that road then.

Define "Stop" Saffex.

Because I know it doesn't mean prevent him from gaining meters. He is consistently one of the lowest yardage gainers of the big sides.

Check his meters per game in the WC.

Tell me if those numbers are anything to write home about.

So just tell me what "stop" means in your book and we can go from there.

Nov 20, 2023, 11:33

His yardage is in traffic if you can’t see that he gains metres and is by far the best operating 12 in traffic then that has nothing to do with merit and everything to do with your prejudice.

DA is freakishly strong, when he takes contact he carries defenders, sets up the next phase - it’s his go to - it’s part of the plan - that’s why Rassie selects him.

The majority of test rugby is played in the trenches it’s why we see big physical guys playing 12 these days

DA is the best at carrying it up - if he was not he would not have two WC’s behind his name and Rassie would have swapped him out for AE long ago

DA is a class act and I appreciate exactly what he brings to the Boks as does a guy like Greenwood but more importantly Rassie

AE could do the same job but why try mend it if it ain’t broken?

Nov 20, 2023, 13:56

A perfect example of confusion was the AB try called back for the knock….Dud ran alongside Mo’unga like an honor guard. That could have lost the WC right there. And it was a total replay of his run alongside Umaga in the 2015 semi, which did lose the QF as Barrett scored. 

I can’t think of one great break this guy made that led to a try. In fact the only try I can remember associated with him was when Boggar fell off him in 2019

Eight miserable years of tractoring.

Nov 20, 2023, 14:11

Bullshit thankfully Rassie is on the same page as I am with DA

You lot are completely clueless

DA has made plenty of great breaks and scored us some valuable tries - none more so than the Welsh SF in 2019

DA is a class act much like most of our Bok side

Nov 20, 2023, 14:25

It says something that if there was an open field tackle to be made one would have more confidence in Arendse than Dud Allende.

Nov 20, 2023, 14:31

You stop DA you stop the Boks

Still one of the most nonsensical statements in the game's history.

Nov 20, 2023, 14:49

Well, let's look at his average yardage, Saffex.

Let's look at the 12s from England, Ireland, France and the ABs and see where DDA ranks.

I haven't looked at the numbers but I'm betting he is likely last or second to last. And probably nowhere near the best.

Which begs the question...stop what exactly?

Nov 20, 2023, 15:50

Oh for crying out loud are you honestly saying that you don’t see DA carrying well in traffic????

So I’ll keep it simple - it’s hard to stop DA dead when he takes it up

If you don’t see that you are a liar

Let’s ignore all the other aspects of play, I’m talking about carrying in traffic

And you betting me based on assumptions counts for sweet fuck all

Nov 20, 2023, 15:51

I think it's fair to say that Damian de Allende is not as good as Saffex thinks he is and he's not as bad as ButtPlug thinks he is.

For me, he's somewhere in-between . . . but a bit closer to the ButtPlug view.

Nov 20, 2023, 15:51

Pakie what part of that statement do you not get?

In the 2019 WC the Boks used DA and PSDT as their go to in traffic

Stop DA and you cut out a phase set up

Nov 20, 2023, 19:09

Only a blithering idiot would think Allende is not strong in the tackle and that he doesn't make the very hard yards. 

Now we are supposed to take the views of people who got the Boks all wrong and spent their days criticizing Rassie and the team. Bwahahahahaha. Suck it up snowflakes. You worked hard to make your name Mud and you succeeded


These are desperate times for the Rassie and Bok critics. They are now clutching at straws regarding Allende. 

I note that arch buffoon mozzz has quitened down regarding DuToit. About time. 

Nov 20, 2023, 19:25

...not to mention DdA's work over the ball at breakdown/ruck a 4th loosie...a center doing flanker things, like Kolisi is a flanker running like a center...the Bokke have a more complicated team dynamic than what's  normally expected of the traditional type cast positions.

 ....speaking of which, what happened to Tradhole?...hasn't been stinking up this place of late...still buys pinning @ his Rassie and Bokke voodoo dolls...

Nov 20, 2023, 19:29

Delande is a flank playing at inside centre. He is strong, a good carrier into traffic and a decent runner in space, but lacks the playmaking ability to draw and pass to create space. 

Nov 20, 2023, 20:26

DDA is not strong for his size.

I swear, people buy into myths simply because they read it enough times.

The guy has almost a decade worth of Bok caps and his highlight reel doesn't show him being a strong carrier. It shows him taking the ball to the anybody his size would...making the very occasional break or good bit of ground. And I mean very occasional.

Kwagga is 10cm and 10Kgs lighter than DDA and makes more ground with every carry...into packs of forwards.

I'm sorry, but if DDA is the best 12 in the game then Kwagga is the best rugby player to have ever lived.

Nov 20, 2023, 21:04

Fuck me Plum do you take us for being stupid? We read the hype that DA is strong??

What a load of utter fucking rubbish

If you don’t see the freakish power of DA then there is absolutely no point debating the subject with you

Some things are plain to see like sheer power which is what Marx, Bismark, the du Preez twins, Wiese, Ruan Venter and DA have - based on observation not hype

Other aspects we can debate on like skill level, tackling, good hands, good brain etc etc but not obvious raw power

It’s the very reason DA has been as effective as he has been as when he takes contact he usually wins the contest

Nov 20, 2023, 21:38

Dud Toit had a good WC final…he put his body on the line. Dud Allende had a miserable final and a miserable WC. That doesn’t mean Dud Toit is the answer at  7 where ball carrying and contesting the ball on the ground are key skills. He is a powder puff ball carrier.

It means in a game where our strategy was to play defense he could elevate his work rate to make a real contribution. That would be very hard to sustain,

Dud Allende has a software problem which has him making poor decisions, witness the Mo’unga break. It’s true that Dud Allende is hard to put away, but it doesn’t matter he is tractoring ….shuffling along, maintaining his balance. It doesn’t result in anything and on average is very low mileage.

Dud Toit should be playing lock, as Mostert showed you can tackle at Dud Toit rate or higher while playing lock. Trouble is he was never a very good lock at the line outs.

The myth goes on for the Duds, it is now so ingrained the only out is injury or retirement.

Nov 20, 2023, 22:20

Bullshit DA did not have a miserable WC he had a good WC scoring a try and being his usual self

PSDT was great throughout and simply brilliant in the final

Mostert showed us what an utter whimp he is coughing up ball twice while trying to take it up in traffic. A physical liability as always

Nov 21, 2023, 09:22

I don't care about Dud, he is the coaches pick, they won the World Cup, end of debate. If we lost, I would have a lot to say, but sometimes you just have to take your medicine and shut up. 

I was more interested in our Mighty midgets. 

The Afrikaner community has always been blessed tall genes and we produce the best locks in the world, not to mention props and loose forwards. We can put a really big team if we really needed to. But the way the boks play with their rush and scramble defence means that bigger players will struggle to keep up in that system. Gone are the days of Bulls bash down the door rugby. Rather kick the ball away and defend seem to be the order of the day and feed off mistakes. 

That team that beat France, they had a bigger pack, huge backs and sometimes we barely held our own in the tight exchanges. France just bull dozed us, but then came one moment of brilliance. A 22 mark and a scrum call in our own 22. Rassie called, France has big forwards and they camp in the midfield. 

On came Ox and we completely destroyed the scrums with the chocolate cake eating machine. 

He is not a tall player, very short in fact, think Deon Fourie came on that game as well after playing at 6 to cover for lazy kolisi and then went to pack down at 2. Also very small player,. 

Then, in the final play, big bruising forward carrying the ball in the midfield, only for Faf to strip the player of the ball and the rest is history. 

Rassie has definitely unlock the boks potential to include all of SA demographics and no longer believe that bigger is better but worked out a game plan that includes everyone and make the boks successful. 

We might not ever hit 70%, but if you have 4 world cups and now going into your 5th consecutive year as the World Cup holders, who could argue with that. 

Nov 21, 2023, 10:32

We might not ever hit 70%, but if you have 4 world cups and now going into your 5th consecutive year as the World Cup holders, who could argue with that. 

Doesn't matter how it's won, some like it pretty, some don't care as long as they win and to that end it's mission accomplished. The Boks are in the record books and that's what counts.

Nov 21, 2023, 11:03

"The Boks are in the record books and that's what counts."

Buh-but they didn't win on handicap . . . and the ref was naughty . . . and the TMO cheated . . . and the Boks kicked everything . . . and their kicker missed all those kicks . . . and the red card! Sniff. It's all so unfair! Why doesn't anyone stick with Moz? Boohoohoo!


Still cracks me up all these weeks later to picture Moffie stamping his little foot and bursting into tears every time someone mentions the fact that we won the RWC.

Nov 21, 2023, 11:48

I'm not sure how one can be pro Jake White but anti Erasmus. They are both defence orientated coaches, neither is known for playing flamboyant rugby.

I had the good fortune of meeting Jake White two years before the 2007RWC through one of the posters on the old board, her handle was "Mo"....some of the oldies on here might remember the good lady. (Hi Mo if you're reading this do pop in and say hello) Oh and by the way I was good friends with his royal Lord Pompous back then and as friends would I invited him along.

Anyway long story short, Jake sat right next to me and I remember saying to him....."Jake we don't score tries"...his answer was short and swift......"If you lose you go home"....he also said you'll be pleased to know that I've invited Bobby Skinstad into the squad. Well Bobby never made the starting 23 in the final, Jake chose boring mistake free Wickus Van Heerden instead.

Do I need to labour the point?

Don't think so.

Nov 21, 2023, 12:30

Yup, it very like that movie, Money Ball, look at individual players qualities that we don't always tend to pick up. I'm happy to call Mostert, Tostert, Dud to be the destroyer of any enterprise backline attack etc. 

Even old sour puss Clive Woodward, these don't seem to have anything constructive to say about anything, just whines endlessly. Now a tabloid columnist and not in the spirit rugby came apart when he wanted to play an attacking brand of rugby. The only teams ever to be able to attack with venom were

NZ, just the way they play, but they can also defend and kick tactically 

Aus, maybe 7 years ago, only team that can attack when their forwards got destroyed up front. 

Fra, they are an enigma, but when they click, they are near impossible. They have become more tactically astute these days

SA, Mainly down to individual brilliance and athleticism rather than know for constructing tries 

Nov 21, 2023, 14:01

But if India fielded a team just think how good they could be..  with 1.42 billion people you could scour the 99.9999th percentile and find athletic 7’ 6” forwards.

Hell you could field a second, third and fourth team and they would all be in the semis.


Nov 21, 2023, 18:43

This bullshit notion that these sides play attacking rugby is bullshit

They play no more attacking rugby than we do

We scored more tries than Scotland, France and England, the same against Ireland and one less than NZ, who’s try was not a try and thanks to Kolisi we never scored an easy try

Nov 21, 2023, 20:42

Something hardly anyone here gets is that you shouldn't always immediately grab the lowest hanging fruit on offer.

Moz is sitting back in his chair and having a right old laugh at some of these responses.

You know what I'm talking about Moz. I know you do.

Making a post or comment, knowing the majority will grab at the first thought that comes into their head, entirely failing to address the actual point in a meaningful way. And I know you wonder, like I do, is it inability or unwillingness? Haha and isn't unwillingness just another kind of inability?

It's like the ego simply won't give the brain a moment to process. Surely ego is the strictest warden of them all.

There's nuance there. Witnessing the battle between ego and logic. That deluded sense of "I have to defend this abstract idea of patriotism" versus "what is luck and how much of it was there?"

I'm a firm believer in that we deal with small things in the same way we want to deal with bigger things. Fractals, microcosms...whatever.

And when one watches responses on this board, it's difficult not to imagine the strategies members must employ to get by IRL to prevent themselves opting for that low fruit at every turn.

On here there is no real punishment for grabbing the low hanging fruit. But, out there in the world, there is.

So if one's mind is predisposed to taking the easy road, that low fruit, in here, then it's likely one is also very tempted to behave the same elsewhere. Because when there is no punishment, like in a place like Ruckers, that's when the mind is in neutral and simply being itself.

So I often wonder, when Moz says something like "There was a lot of luck involved in the WC win" members here understand what the low hanging fruit on that tree is? Do they realise they are grabbing it with both hands and crying victory even as they crush the overripe offering?

What do they do when confronted with contextually similar, yet unrelated, statements out there in the world, perhaps by a family member or colleague.

Have they trained themselves to look up instead? To hold off for the greater prize?

Is it annoying to have the type of mind that just wants that low fruit, that easy out...but to be smart enough to know that punishment awaits the eager slacker?

All I know is, the joke is on you chaps.

It really is.

Nov 21, 2023, 21:14

Big fucking yawn

Nov 21, 2023, 23:38

My job is to entertain and to educate, says a famous financial analyst.. Unfortunately humans are now so programmed by social media that they need conflict. And the algorithms are programmed to encourage that, the more conflict the more engagement and the more advertising revenue.

Gone is the ability to reflect, to remember a strand of poetry. To observe the world and use your god given mental capacity to interpret it. A world that moved away from real tribes is now congregated by virtual tribes.

These people are so brainwashed that despite the obvious significant role of luck in three consecutive one point wins, they can’t admit it. The tribe wont wear it.

You  have a poster on here who in one of his rare lucid moments claimed a Bok World Cup win would be in spite of Erasmus, not because of him. And then when the TMO handed us the final on a platter he reversed himself and declared Erasmus a genius.

Imagine the need to belong that creates that kind of change.

The odd thing is we do have incredible potential based on a foundation of old Bok forward power and potent backs drawn from our now broader pool. But the way we won the WC ignored that new potency and made everything an arm wrestle.

Any thinking human being would see the lack of ambition….the need to win at all costs driven by inadequacy. The ABs lost but next July under a competent coach  they will be renewed, not at all diminished by their 14 man loss.

This whole debate is about seeing the world in context, being honest,  demanding high standards ….not falling for the hype….seeing the flaws and the strengths. If I want to see the world through the eyes of cheerleaders the aesthetics would be much better at an American football game.

An adult debate with concepts, logic, observations and statistics is so much more satisfying than waving a flag and it might actually create a bit of intellectual freshness in a sport where most reporting doesn’t rise above the banal. 

Pakie made some excellent comments about the French failings, I saw none of that in the totally empty media…but he was spot on. We could have more of that.

And a little bit repartee never hurt anybody, but there is no need to try to and humiliate posters with a different view

Nov 22, 2023, 00:29

Yeah we won the most difficult WC having faced Scotland, Ireland, France, England and New Zealand thanks to a shit clueless egotistical coach, a boring kicking game, a bunch of players not worthy, a red card, Pollard and a dose of luck.

It had fuck all to do with a brilliant coach, a team that scored more tries than the majority of the opposition they faced, had an impenetrable defence by a side filled with resilience and an unbelievable self belief instilled by that very same coach

Luck my arse you make your luck, every side has luck going for them and against them in every game they play. Luck plays a tiny part of the whole. It’s that whole that won us the WC and there is nothing a bunch of sour grapes can say that will change that very fact

Rassie is a bloody genius he has nothing more to prove - he has done us proud like no other coach has ever done and that’s a FACT . These points are based on my observations not media hype - that’s another FACT. Just like the red card was negated by the lack of a specialist hooker , something conveniently ignored to suit the narrative.

Nov 22, 2023, 06:43

Nice post Piles but here's the thing, always thought you have a way with words and you're a top bloke as long as one agrees with everything you say so cut the spin and practice what you preach the proof as they say is in the eating. The floor is yours.

Nov 22, 2023, 08:12

Other than Doos nobody on this board has come near to being as biased and nonsensical in their rugby comments than mozzzzz.  Once he gets something wrong he goes on and on and on trying to prove he is right.

He got the Boks wrong in 2 world cups, he got Rassie wrong he got Du Toit wrong and he got Allende wrong. But he insists he was right. 

He couldn't argue argue that the Boks had an easy passage so he had to find another excuse as to why the Boks won. Now its all to do with luck. So biased is he that he can give little credit and when he does its through clenched teeth. He pretends to be a thinking type open to rational debate but he obviously is just a biased and dishonest hack.

How often did he correct his side kick Doos.  EVER? Think of the nonsense Doos posted, the pure insults aimed at the Boks.

Stick with Mozzz has become a board joke and rightly so.

Nov 22, 2023, 08:16

The truth is that there is nothing much wrong with the Bok attack. The Boks can play it tight or be more attacking as the situation demands.

Should we win a third consecutive RWC with Rassie as coach poor mozzzz will think up some other excuse as to why the Boks won. He will be bitterly disappointed and carry on whining for months. He appears to have zero ability to self reflect and alter course.

Nov 22, 2023, 11:01

Allow me to simplify the point all of you are making.

The current Boks are the perfect rugby team with with a perfect coach.

Thinking anything less is delusional and unpatriotic...bordering on Bok hatred.


Nov 22, 2023, 12:30


From my point of view... nope.... absolutely not ..... in fact very far from it

Can't speak for the others

Nov 22, 2023, 16:06

See, no replies because the absurdity of the hill people are trying to die on is suddenly very clear.

They've defended the Boks to the point where it's been made taboo to criticise anything about them.

One person thinks they're 100% perfect and the other thinks they are 70%.

Clearly one hates them and the other is a true fan.


Nov 22, 2023, 16:21

Gotta love how the red card was negated by the lack of a specialist hooker….but the coach is a genius. The lack of a specialist hooker was totally the result of decisions by the genius. And no, having a non regular playing in a position that’s not his regular gig, is not the same as having no player at all in one position.

Nov 22, 2023, 17:58

Have to agree with you there Moz. Heaps of Bok fans on other sites have comforted themselves with the Boks’ squeaky 1 point win by the delusional thought that having to replace Bongi equated to Cane being red carded.! Ridiculous……

Nov 22, 2023, 19:39

Yep Moolaa historically everybody pretty much agreed, an extended red decides the game…..not this time though. It’s a a kind of mass delusion.

You guys were very sporting about it, I doubt some on our side would have been that tolerant. Personally I think the whole thing was excessive.

Nov 22, 2023, 19:53

15 with a faulty hooker or 14 men...I know which team I'm betting on 10/10 times.

And let's also remember that aside from the lineouts, that part time hooker was very good on the day.

Nov 22, 2023, 20:08

Cane shouldn't have fcked up then...the Boks were lucky, I'll take that...we've had our fair share of bad luck over the years...just a pity some bitter ballz on here can't handle a bit of good fortune for a change...

Nov 22, 2023, 20:15

Fuck you lot are so stupid - I’ll spell it out for you

If we had a regular hooker playing when the AB’s were reduced to 14 men then the AB’s would have taken a proper beating as the set piece advantage would have come to the fore.

With a pretender at hooker we lost the opportunity to take advantage of the numerical advantage we had for 30 min in the second half.

Damn right our non hooker cost us an advantage but who cares we won the WC anyway

Had we had a proper hooker, it would have been another warm up score and I would have been the first to concede we won easily thanks to the red card

Nov 22, 2023, 20:29

Actually Draad, some of us wanted the WC final to be a fair contest, not a handicapped win over the ABs, that will forever have an asterisk attached to it. The more so if we lose to them in the RC this year.

I could never understand the crowds baying for a card rather than a contest….and I’m surprised South Africans are counted in that number.

Nov 22, 2023, 20:52

It was a fair contest we had no proper hooker for 78 min and were down to 14 men for 20 min

Nov 22, 2023, 21:01

Net of all the cards is we were a man up for 40 minutes.

Nov 22, 2023, 21:46

And a hooker down for 78 min

Nov 22, 2023, 21:53

The Springboks lineout has always been their best attacking weapon. Throwing to the middle of the lineout often leads to a rolling maul try, or a won penalty for 3.

The Bok lineout was not good after Marx got injured. With Marx and a good lineout, the Boks could have really bullied the 14 man All Blacks.

Nov 22, 2023, 22:05

Not only the lineouts but equally the scrums

With a proper physical hooker we would have dominated the NZ scrum in a big way given they were without Cane and had Jordie on the flank

But with Fourie at hooker and Jordie on the flank the scrums became a stalemate

Nov 22, 2023, 22:11

Nov 22, 2023, 22:15

Ardie Savea

Loose Forward

look at em stats ....................... fella must be rugby's mightiest midget

Nov 22, 2023, 22:25

Savea is 103kg hardly a midget

Nov 22, 2023, 22:31

compared to 130k LompiedeLoood, he's a midget.

Nov 22, 2023, 22:36

I should hope so one is a lock the other an openside playing 8 unless the lock was powder puff Mostert at 112kg

Nov 22, 2023, 23:34

If Fourie was inadequate it’s 100% on the genius. But it’s nonsense we were only 78% in the line outs against the Poms with Bongi and NZ competed far more aggressively.

In the scrums NZ handled Ox, our only effective weapon quite well.

Nov 23, 2023, 00:13

Oh boy - the Kiwi’s handled the scrums and Ox, because Ox had Fourie as his hooker - fuck me Moz a scrum is a collective - you are only as strong as your weakest link

Ox has stability and an anchor bound to him when he has a specialist hooker employed - that’s not the case when Fourie was his hooker

Not having a specialist hooker was our genius’s call and guess what - that genius has won us 2 WC’s

Nov 23, 2023, 03:42

Well Dave you seem to be agreeing, absent the red card and Pollard NZ would have wasted the Boks because of Harrassmiss’ bat crazy decision to have one hooker in the whole squad.

Nobody is making the case that the ABs would have beaten the Boks if  our coach had made the right selections and followed  a more productive strategy. Simply that given the choices Harrassmiss made the ABs were the better team on the day and the Boks scraped a one point win because the ABs played a man down and because Pollard saved the fat man’s blushes.

Frankly I was struggling to explain this in terms you and the other groupies could grasp and then you made the case for me. 

Here it is again:

Full strength Boks vs full strength ABs…..unknown

No card  ABs vs no hooker Boks….ABs by 9

No card ABs vs no hooker, no Pollard Boks….ABs by 14.

Conclusion Harrassmiss made a horrible mistake and was saved by a dubious red card which puts an asterisk next to the win.

Stick with moz.

Nov 23, 2023, 04:32

"Actually Draad, some of us wanted the WC final to be a fair contest, not a handicapped win over the ABs, that will forever have an asterisk attached to it. The more so if we lose to them in the RC this year."

I wanted that too, but unfortunately Cane fucked it pressure,  call it careless...I don't Bokke got over the line...I refuse to diminish their achievement because of something somebody else did.

Nov 23, 2023, 09:54

Wrong Moz at no point were the AB’s better than us on the day

The Boks won the game as they were ahead at halftime and kept the AB’s out thanks to an awesome team effort

The AB red card was negated by the fact that we lost our specialist hooker after 2 min which prevented us from enforcing the advantage

We won because of the belief and resolve instilled by the best coach the Boks have ever had

The coach that has now won us 2 WC’s, a RC, a Lions series and has us back at number 1.

No Bok coach has ever achieved what Rassie has - the guy is a coaching genius

Nov 23, 2023, 10:00

"We won because of the belief and resolve instilled by the best coach the Boks have ever had"

The Crux

Nov 23, 2023, 10:04

"Sob . . . the ref was naughty, we kicked everything, we didn't win on handicap, the TMO was a cheat . . . and boohoohoo . . . the red card . . . and . . . sob . . . and it's all so dispiriting! How dare you all celebrate this as a win? Can't you see the big asterisk? Sob . . . it's so unfair!"


Nov 23, 2023, 11:10

Kane rightly got a red card, head high tackle. The fact Frizel were still on the field after losing our only recognised hooker. It won't surprise me if team target certain players. There have been books written of how teams would target certain players. Don't forget that on one tour the boks took to NZ they had their national heavy weight boxer in the team that knocked out about 3 players. Days before the red card. The difference is that it is far more subtle. It wouldn't surprise me if Bongi was targeted at the ruck. 

Don't forget about that forward pass of a try that shouldn't have stood, and teams can win even if they are only playing with 13 men. Don't forget that Sharks team under Jake white that played with 13 players for most of the game against the But Crust Raiders (Crusaders). Difficult game and the team dug deep. I think the boks would have found a way and we were dominating in the first 30 min, but it was about game management and shutting them down. 

That is another reason why I was so surprised that we won with a lot more smaller players when traditionally, our players got destroyed by bigger NZ backs. 

SA use to have 2 ways of selecting their teams. If you are big, you are a forward, if you are small, you are a back. The only big backs we had like Joos probably went through a growth spurt late in their teens. Where as NZ was always about skill and Pace. 

NZ backs were bigger than our backs. Some of their forwards were bigger, their props outweighed Ox by 30kgs. But he held his own. 

Agree on Fourie, he is not a scrummager, Bongi and Marx is. 

Nov 23, 2023, 13:36

Oct 21, 2023, 21:28

Just to correct everyone on here. 

All bok players minis ten. They were rubbish. 

Kwotalisi who? 

Bongi missing throws etc. 

We had no physical edge. Deon Fourie and RG making a difference. 

Those two can probably go into 7.5

But the rest were shit 

Nov 23, 2023, 13:40

Oct 27, 2023, 17:41

Rassie the "genius" . . .

Just about everything Rassie has done up to this point has been the opposite of genius, it's been downright moronic. 

Picking 4 scrumhalves in the initial squad (and then not even putting a 2nd scrumhalf on the bench in the final), replacing the injured Mapimpi with Lukhanyo Am when we desperately needed a hooker (and then not giving Am even a minute game time), the kick-and-hope game plan (when we have so much talent in our backline), the 7-1 split on the bench for the final of a RWC game . . . just about every inportant decision has been botched . . . yet we've made it to the final through a combination of luck and having such a good pool of players to choose from.

If we play anything even resembling the kind of game we played against England in the semifinal then the All Blacks are going to put 30 points over us.

Yet, for all that, let me just say that if we win - however we win and by whatever margin - I will take back all my criticism of Rassie and proclaim him a rugby genius.

Go Bokke!!!

Nov 23, 2023, 13:45

Oct 13, 2023, 12:25

King Rassie is a great coach just not a perfect one evidenced by this fucking pathetic Mostert call How the fuck can anyone select Mostert over RG it’s insulting 

Kriel ahead of Am Mostert ahead of RG Arendse ahead of Moodie Reinach ahead of Faf Vermeulen ahead of Wiese (more marginal) 

These calls are going to cost us, they devalue the side that should have been. The side that would have looked better on paper than the French one 

Now it does not. Rassie you 

Nov 23, 2023, 13:52

Revisionism, doesn’t stand up to a little scrutiny. Kane’s red car was classical rugby stupidity. There was no intent. Why? Because Kane, unlike Kolisi who lined up his target, never thought he was going to make the tackle.

The tacklers were ahead of Kriel and then he changed direction into Kane, whose reaction to wrap him up was totally reflex in a micro second.

All these talking heads drone on about mitigation…you don’t mitigate in a micro second. It was just a rugby incident. And if you wanted to keep the lawyers happy 10 minutes was more than enough punishment.

It never even passed the high degree of risk test, Kriel was totally unhurt.

The fact that a contest we had waited 4 years to see was compromised by that incident is a nonsense. The fact is we don’t know who would have won that game.I can’t get excited about beating 14 men

Nov 23, 2023, 14:40

"Yet, for all that, let me just say that if we win - however we win and by whatever margin - I will take back all my criticism of Rassie and proclaim him a rugby genius."

A man of my word. Thanks for that Moffie. Hope you're feeling a little less dispirited.

Nov 23, 2023, 15:33

What was most impressive was that the Boks were able to win without their main attacking weapon - the driving maul. 

Many Bok tries are setup by a rolling maul from the lineout. The Boks often score a try or win a penalty. It is worth at least 10 points a game.

The Springbok backline was good, in defence - and attack when they got the ball.

The semi and finals were poor conditions - so these were never going to be running games.

Nov 23, 2023, 17:40

Plum doesn't seem to understand that for years now, ever since Rassie was player coach for the Cheetahs Mozzz has had an unrelenting smear campaign against him. 

What one is getting from Mozzz and from his sidekick Doos is not balanced views but a bigoted ongoing smear campaign. You don't get more consistently biased than these two. Rather than admit they got things wrong the go on and on and on trying to justify themselves. 

Whilst the ongoing whining from mozzz is pathetic poor doos completely lost it and made some of the most outrageous anti Bok, anti Rassie statements ever seen on the board  with not a word of correction from the arch deceiver mozzz, the fake Bok supporter.

Nov 23, 2023, 19:10

Ag ou HasBeen tell us again how Trump beat Biden in the last election. How Fauci was going to be arrested,  how the Dems were going to lose the black vote.

You love the same type of self serving snake oil artist….Trump, Erasmus, Tucker…and you never learn not to trust them. I suppose you believe Erasmus’ father became a dronklap because of somebody being necklaced?

You fools are wide open to these charlatans. 

Nov 23, 2023, 19:27

...ja Moz, tell us again how we lost the RWC final on handicap and how NZ are actually the more deserving side and should be the real world chamoions...SIES!!!

Nov 23, 2023, 19:29

Shark we won the WC having to take the hardest route ever without two players who are the best in the game in their respective positions in Marx and Am

We were also without Lood, who Matfield said is the best 5 in the game.

Lood is a far far better lock than powder puff Mostert

So we won that WC without 3 key players and the toughest route ever

We won thanks to the genius that is Rassie - how he did it is bloody unbelievable. How he instilled such belief and resolve in his side is something that needs to bottled

Let’s hope like hell Rassie does take us to the next WC as he says he will be doing

Nov 23, 2023, 20:58

The call of the tribe….sies….anybody who thought the tribe was driving off the cliff in the  1970s got that response. And look at the consequences, they are spread all over the planet, children separated from parents.  Dishonest loyalty cost so much, but it’s almost genetic.

If it makes you happy Draad, go for it. I myself prefer a fair fight. If we were real winners we never needed a man advantage. 

Nov 23, 2023, 21:07

The fight was fair, no hooker for 78min negated any advantage we would have had

A numerical advantage in the forwards means nothing if you cant press home that advantage with specialist in each position in your pack

Given the wet conditions and little chance of playing an expansive game, the Kiwis could afford to have a back help out in the forwards

Nov 23, 2023, 21:44

Nonsense of course, but to the extent that not having Dweba there was a disadvantage, whose fault was that? My guess is if you asked 100 fans if they preferred Dweba on the bench vs Fourie, 90 would have said no. All the trends in lineout play and failed mauls were apparent right from the start….in the the Irish test for example, where we won 1 of 3 mauls and 8 out of 10 lineouts.

This hooker excuse is pitiful. And sure the conditions were testing….but once again our opponents outgained us in every game….even the Poms did.

Kick and defend….nothing else.

Nov 23, 2023, 22:07

Oh what utter crap Dweba vs Fourie at hooker is a no brainer - ignore the maul - had Dweba been in the scrum we would have dominated the AB pack and won a number of penalties

Nothing pitiful about the hooker excuse it was very real.

Kick and chase my arse we scored more tries than our opponents other than the AB’s who’s try was not a try and Kolisi botched our simply try

Who cares if Rassie made the hooker call, we won and while Fourie compromised us in the set pieces he was great in other facets of the game which helped win us the game

The genius of Rassie at play here - we all see the need for a specialist hooker on the bench and he does not and wins us a second WC with that call

Simply bloody brilliant because he just never conforms

Nov 24, 2023, 02:14

So not having a specialist hooker on the bench advantaged us….kinda blows the Fourie disadvantaged us argument out of the water. 

Nov 24, 2023, 02:15

Garbage I’m afraid Saffex. You seem to be intent on proving (or trying to) that the Boks didn’t have an advantage playing 15 vs 14!

In the scrum all the hooker has to do is push and with Fourie only 2kgs lighter than Bongi, so what? What extra technique is required?

What you haven’t mentioned is the Boks failed to score a try through their backs with a one man advantage but somehow the ABs did.

Nothing to do with Rassie’s brilliance at all!

Nov 24, 2023, 04:20

Moo, we're just saying the Boks did enough to get over the line and it doesn't diminishes our RWC because NZ got a red in the final..

I'm of the opinion that we probably would have won if it was yellow only...I think mentally the Boks took the foot off the pedal after the if we lost a bit of to NZ for never letting up and still making a contest of it, but we're not giving Bill back because Cane got carded.

Nov 24, 2023, 05:24

Fourie was so much better in general play than Bongi it's not even close.

Bongi against France - 5 runs for 1m conceding two turnovers. 10 tackles missing 3.

Fourie against NZ - 5 runs for 17m conceding 1 turnover. 20 tackles missing 1.

We lost some in set pieces, but gained a far more effective and impactful player across the field.

Nov 24, 2023, 09:37

Oh wow Moola if you think that is all a hooker has to do in the scrums then you know nothing about scrumming.

And if you think Bongi only weighs 3kg more you need your eyes tested

The Boks should have had an advantage with the AB’s down to 14 but that was negated by the fact that we had no specialist hooker to press home the numerical advantage in the set pieces - this is a fact, coupled with the wet conditions which prevented us from exploiting the difference on attack.

So while we had a numerical advantage for 30 min in the second half we could not exploit it thanks to no hooker and the conditions

Fourie 96kg

Bongi 108kg

Nov 24, 2023, 09:43

But Pakie it’s from those set pieces that we would have gained more points

There is no doubt given how good our scrum has been that we would not have dominated the AB scrum in that second half had we had a specialist hooker

Fourie was better in general play but it gained us no points

Nov 24, 2023, 10:09

"In the scrum all the hooker has to do is push and with Fourie only 2kgs lighter than Bongi, so what?"

Bongi would walk over Fourie and barely notice... just saying.

But Fourie is far better in open play. Reads the game better than Bongi ever could.

Fourie's throws?  How many minutes of AB possession does that equate to when you add it all up? 

Chat GPT says that the average amount of time a rugby team keeps possession of the ball is 3-4 minutes. So it would be 3.5 x 4( is apparently how many lineouts we lost but it feels like more) or 13.5 minutes less tackling we'd need to do. When you factor that into total ball-in-play time which was 53:42...

25.14% of ball-in-play time is what Fourie's bad throws cost the Boks. That's a 1/4 of the game. Not nothing but still an average.

Anyway, that tackle on Bongi was suspect as all get out! 

I feel like in the circumstances this game was probably more like a 14.6 v 14 than it was 15 v 14.

Nov 24, 2023, 16:12

Okay I can buy that Plum, but the 0.4 of a man reverse handicap by having Fourie vs Bongi was entirely the result of decisions made by our coach. We could have had a proper hooker playing for 80 minutes.

So then we take the 0.6 of a man advantage for 40minutes and it’s a 6 point handicap. NZ wins by 5. And if we throw in the Pollard 5 point differential they win by 10.

What these numbers are suggesting is NZ was the better team on the field, supported by meters gained, defenders beaten and clean breaks made.

By the rules we are World Champions, but are we the champions of the rugby world? I fear not, that title still belongs to NZ because they played all the rugby in the final.

Nov 24, 2023, 17:54

But Pakie it’s from those set pieces that we would have gained more points

Maybe Dave. Or Fourie's better breakdown and more active defensive work might have saved us a few points. We'll never know. We're really just killing time until there's some proper rugby on again.

Nov 24, 2023, 17:59

Saffex, the site I looked at says Bongi is only 98kgs so there’s a discrepancy there. You’ve said “wow” but still haven’t explained what additional technical ability is required for a hooker in the scrum. He’s basically jammed between the props so where’s this special technique you are claiming other than just pushing? Anyone got an answer to that?

Nov 24, 2023, 19:26

Wow Moz your sour grapes have no limits

So NZ were better than us in the final

What utter horse shit

Nov 24, 2023, 19:32

Moola your stats are outdated - one only needs to look at Bongi vs Fourie to see that Bongi is a bigger man

There is a reason Fourie was moved from hooker to openside many years ago. He was physically not up to the demands of playing hooker.

The hooker is the nut that holds the frontrow together. The stronger the hooker the tighter the nut

Nov 24, 2023, 21:51

Nope I just don’t drink the kool aid. We were bloody awful in the final, playing no rugby, down to our last card which was Pollard’s boot.

The difference between you and I Dave is you believe that fairly represents  Bok rugby, I think we can be much better. I’m a demanding fan and you’re a groupie…no offense.

Nov 24, 2023, 22:12

Oh what utter crap we won the first half anyone will tell you that.

The AB’s clawed back in the second but we kept them out. The best side won, the number one side in the game prevailed

Your take is just biased anti Rassie bullshit and I’m more than happy to be a groupie after two WC wins, a RC, a Lions series and being ranked number 1 in the game

Your anti is embarrassing Moz - seriously

Who the fuck in their right mind would not be singing the praises of our side after winning the WC having played Scotland, Ireland, France, England and NZ to win it???

Get a grip Moz FFS

Games are not measured by how many metres you gained, how many defenders you beat, how much possession and territory you had or how well you defended it’s measured by the points on the board

Nov 25, 2023, 02:01

We lost to Ireland ….beat NZ with a man advantage….scraped past a demoralized English team and as I said before the WC, Scotland will never beat the Boks at the WC.

The first Bok test I saw in 1960 we played NZ at Ellis Park. NZ were supposedly the better team, but we scored two wonderful tries, both coming from long range back movements with Antelme cutting in from the blindside wing and releasing Hennie van Zyl in 50 meter runs. 

That was Bok rugby…so was the Joubert/Rossouw,….Gainsford/Englebrecht….Gerber/Mordt…..JdV/Habana eras.

This kick from everywhere crap is just the warmed over Bulls rugby we always despised.

Nov 25, 2023, 02:40

Nov 25, 2023, 05:29

Also...I do know that 3.5 x 4 is 14...

Same as you Moz.

I'm happy we won. But also think we could play much better rugby.

The 2019 final left me feeling far better than the 2023 one.

Nov 25, 2023, 05:36

What an embarrassment this frot fake Bok supporter Moz is. It's been weeks now and the buffoon is still whining about the Bok win. Will he ever stop complaining!

Trump won in a landslide in 2020. Everything points to that. Thete was massive election fraud and interference and State election laws were broken etc. 

I see an Obummer appointed Judge is allowing a case against Dominium Voting Machines to go forward having bern convinced by experts that the machines are open to fraud. 

Like the Collapsing J6 Narrative the narrative this was a free and fair election is also collapsing. 

As to Ukraine the war has been lost. America has paid a terrible price as the expansion  BRICS and dedollarization continues apace

Everywhere Mozzz's Globalist scumbag buddies are facing a huge backlash. 

Globalist open borders is being rejected vigourously and traitors like mozzz who support this are being howled down. 

I see Elon Musk is calling for mass deportations. 

Tucker Carlson continues to thrive on Twitter which is doing very well in terms of views etc. Tucker has had 2. 1 billion views. Figures the so called Globalist MSM can only dream of. 

Mozz being the out of touch half bake he is predicted the demise of Tucker on his leaving Fox. 

Mozzz big pick DeSantis has also crashed. Mozzz has no clue as to the mood of the American People as he lives in his little Globalist bubble. 

On every front this very deceitful operator is crashing. 

His ego is suffering greatly regarding the Boks and Rassie. He trashed the Boks and Rassie after the 2019 win, insisting we accepts his crack pot nonsense. This went on up to the 2023 RWC. Now that the Boks have won he is repeating his 2019 efforts. Nothing changes for this doofus. I fully expect the loon to be telling us how awful the Boks are till THE NEXT RWC. Then if Rassie should win again the whole pathetic anti Bok anti Rassie BS will continue. Until Rassie goes ou Mozzzz will bleat on day after boring day looking only at what he perceives as Bok negatives. 

Events have caught up with the Mozzzzquito. You can only deceive for so long, only talk nonsense for so long until folks catch on. 

Nov 25, 2023, 13:33

You’d  be better off educating your Buddy Mike about the difference between the deficit and the debt, assuming of course you know what that is. Trump blew the 2020 election in the COVID briefings and the first debate….and the Boks won the WC but inspired nobody beyond the borders.

Nov 25, 2023, 16:08

I think they won over a few people, Moz.

But it's also true that we didn't play attractive rugby and we seemed to have an invisible hand from the sky nudging us across the line.

I suppose from a neutral's perspective, the sneaky 1 point wins, three times in a row, probably makes our run from the quarters one of, if not the, most entertaining of all time.

But that doesn't really speak to the quality of the play, more to the results.

All in all, we'll watch replays of these games at some time and probably be able to appreciate them more.

If like to watch all three of those games again in their entirety.

For me Arendse was the difference in the backs. His smarts saved our bacon against France for sure.

Nov 25, 2023, 16:31

If the Springboks' will to win didn't inspire you and make you proud of Springbok rugby then you're probably better off supporting some other team . . . or some other sport.

Nov 25, 2023, 22:50

So Peeper….the will to win. Sounds a bit like a cliché. How exactly did that manifest itself. What proactive steps got your blood racing. The floor is your’s.

Nov 26, 2023, 07:46

There's a scene from one of the Star Wars movies where somebody says..."...polarised reasoning is the way of the Sith."

We see it here. You either love everything about the Bok WC win or you hate the Boks.

Of course, there is no middle ground . There is no way to be happy and proud while also feeling things could be better or disappointed that the margin could have been bigger.

Nov 26, 2023, 08:41

No Plum, most of us recognize that there's much room for improvement,  maar ons kla nie met die witbrood onder die arm nie...

Nov 26, 2023, 08:45

"How exactly did that manifest itself."

Just go watch the matches again...the PSDT effort in the final in particular...Eben's effort in the France match...Pollard’s believe in the way he approached his kicking in all 3 matches...the team was ready...and the players stepped up when they had to...fantastic effort to get over the line in a four horse neck to neck race...CHAMPIONS.

Nov 26, 2023, 14:24

And was Curry’s commitment in the English game was less than Dud Toit….he made 16 tackles to Dud’s 9. And was Savea’s commitment to the win any less than Dud’s….he beat 4 tackles to Dud’s zero,

Absolute nonsense….the only difference was Pollard was the ice man….any of that other bs is disrespectful to him.

Nov 26, 2023, 18:43

 Disrespectful,  LOL!!!

Nov 26, 2023, 18:43


Nov 26, 2023, 19:18

So you cocked up….double posted and then tried to slime out of it by throwing in another feeble LOL.


Dec 02, 2023, 15:48


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