I have changed my mind....

Forum » Rugby » I have changed my mind....

May 25, 2020, 23:32

..on Rassie, PSDT, Elton Jantjies, and a few others.


And before any of the usual fanboys jump in and start beating your chests claiming: "See, I have been telling you all the time but you wouldn't listen....". None of the arguments on this board has done anything to change my mind. No one, especially the blind fanboys came up with any arguments that  could convince me. It was when I saw this video. And the guy who made the video is not even an ex-player or something  similar. He is a gamer, playing rugby computer games.


Sit back and enjoy. Some may even have seen the video before. I saw it the first time this weekend. I have seen his video on the final, though.



May 25, 2020, 23:47

I for one expect an apology, I was one of the first to identify Rassie. I tried to beat it through your head many times that Rassie was the real deal. 


PSDT has gotten better each season and has well and truly transformed into a specialist blindside flanker. 

Jantjies has skills and can get a backline running. Just not good on wet pitches. 

May 26, 2020, 00:09

Apology? You’ve got to be taking the piss. 

Why am I not surprised that our loudmouth used car salesman would be the first to start beating his chest? Give me one quote of you saying anything that was even close to the stuff mentioned in this video. You do not have the insight to analyse the situation like this guy has done. You may have decided that Rassie was the guy but you had no clue why you believed that. I should actually have been pissed of at your arrogance in thinking that you said anything that could convince me.

Back to the used car stand with you. 

This remark alone proves that you have no idea what you are talking about “ Jantjies has skills and can get a backline running. Just not good on wet pitches. Nowhere in this video is there any talk about him being. Maybe you should have watched the video first.

PS. The one that I really owe an apology is Siya Kolisi. I don’t know many times I thought that he was an arsehole who didn’t deserve to even be in the squad, let alone captain the side. 

May 26, 2020, 06:11

I saw something in Rassie years ago when  he was Director of Rugby of the Stormers and Coetzee was the coach,   Effectively there was a partnership in evidence in 2009 and 2010, but in 2011 something went wrong between the two and the Stormers started to go backwards in performances faster and faster, 

The fact is that Erasmus became Director of Rugby at SARU in 2012 - but even though he was in charge of Meyer as Head Coach there obviously was zero co-operation between the two of them for the  four years Meyer was Head Coach,   That was not the first time that Erasmus had difficulties to work with other coaches.   The first obvious sign that there was a different approach between Erasmus and other coaches were in 2007 when he left the White training squad a month before the start of the WC.   It also happened in 2016 when after the appointment of Coetzee he said publicly that the co-operation between Coetzee and him will be of value to the team.  Coetzee said no and Erasmus - realizing that disaster was inevitable resigned - bit left a gap in his contract with Munster that would allow him to come back to serve the Springboks when called upon to do so. 

So what is the difference between the other coaches I mentioned and Erasmus?   I think that Erasmus studies the game in detail and built up a massive data base on the game itself - from that data base he study the abilities of the players in the opposing teams and how they be neutralized or their weaknesses exploited, 

He also studied the abilities of players available in SA and how he can develop game that is built on natural abilities of players,  Jones - a person with a similar academic approach to rugby came with him from Munster.   They base the game plan on the ability and talent of team members to implement it, and his coaching approach is also aimed at finetuning the inherent skills and abilities to produce best results.

I do think that the difficulty Erasmus had with the other coaches is basically a much more academic approach to the game and at the same time to use the findings practically in games.

I personally have rated Erasmus as the best SA Coach since 1992 and still am of the same opinion.     

May 26, 2020, 08:32

Ag no, Ceradyne. Now you're sounding like Dumb Fuck Dave and that used car salesman. 

Jantjies? Really? Have you watched him pretend rugby at test level? That's an acceptable standard of play to you? Really?

Kolisi? Worthy of his position in the team ... worthy to be captain?

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaa!!

Have you lost your mind?


 


May 26, 2020, 08:39

Comrade ... get a grip man.

Rassie has produced nothing of note. He came in and all we saw was much of the same. Losses to the better rugby nations and the occasional victory over run of the mill sides. Then he lucked his way through to the final and ended up winning against the better team.

Now suddenly he's a rugby god? Is that all it takes to rise to god status?

Let him retain the no.1 ranking for the next several years ... let him dominate the world as we've seen the All Blacks do.

Till then he's no better than any other average club coach.

He's proved nothing.


May 26, 2020, 08:51

For me, give this guy some funding and let him add some production quality to his videos. 

I've been watching his channel for a year or so now and there isn't a more informative rugby show anywhere on TV.

Agree or disagree with his assessments, he does a fantastic analysis and is on point with his humour.

Much respect to the lad :)

May 26, 2020, 10:27

Posted by: Plum (5828 posts)

May 26, 2020, 08:51



For me, give this guy some funding and let him add some production quality to his videos. 

I've been watching his channel for a year or so now and there isn't a more informative rugby show anywhere on TV.

Agree or disagree with his assessments, he does a fantastic analysis and is on point with his humour.

Much respect to the lad :)


I agree. 


What we have to remember is that he does not have a dog in this fight. He has no favourites and no pet hates. All he sees is two teams playing a game and he is trying to figure out what they do, how they do it and why they do it. I have never seen anything to suggest that he has any favourites or any pet hates. There is no way of knowing who he supports. 


He is not a forummer (if there is such a word) who is starting thread upon thread to explain why his blue eyed boy is as brilliant as he always says and has been saying since Jan van Riebeeck. Or that he is as kak as he been saying for the same time. He has no reason to rubbish others. He invites them to share their thoughts. In the absolutely unlikely event of him ever posting on this forum, he will probably be cast as an ignorant idiot who knows fokol about rugby within two or three posts. 


I can almost see ou Maaikie trying to rubbish him because he ignores the ESPN stats. And Frans Malherbe’s dad and Meyer Bosman’s mother and the receptionist at SARU. 


This guy has explained his arguments without giving any team’s or player’s stats. I cannot, of the top of my head, remember him ever using player stats in any of his videos that I have seen. 


Beeno will be kissing his feet. Not because of the way in which he explains what exactly he has seen in Rassie and PSDT, but merely for the fact that he has said something positive about them.  


There are only about three or four people on here who argue vaguely in the same way as this chap. All of them are regularly rubbished. The comical part is the the counter arguments to their arguments are overwhelmingly comical at best. 


One of them posts very seldomly but he knows what he is talking about and I know why he can talk with authority because I know who he is, what he does and what he has achieved. The minute he posts something he is ridiculed. Not because of what he is saying but because of who he is, or who they think he is. 

May 26, 2020, 10:48

Great viewing Vlag - very insightful stuff

It clearly shows how little some so called experts on here actually know

I’ve said it time and again - there is no better exponent of unleashing players around you than Jantjies by hand or foot

What PSDT brought to the cause was huge

Kolisi is both a great player and brilliant leader

Rassie is a rugby genius

It’s all perfectly illustrated in that clip

Great find

May 26, 2020, 10:52

Haha Cera...

"There is no way of knowing who he supports."

From what I can gather, he's a Scarlets fan. 

He eludes to it in some of his videos.

May 26, 2020, 11:08

Squidge was on Jim Hamilton's podcast on Facebook a day or two before he released this video. That's worth a watch as well.

Herschel Jantjies is his blue eyed boy and SCARLETS LEGEND!:D

May 26, 2020, 11:12

"SCARLETS LEGEND!"

;)

May 26, 2020, 11:25

@xavi and Plum. Spot on about Scarlets and Jantjies. Point taken. I just remembered thinking, ahhhh at least we now know he’s a Scarlets fan. I forgot about that. It doesn’t take anything away from his objectivity though. 

BTW. I meant to make mention of this. He says that Rassie had two and a half game plans. I figured out the “half” game plan. Anybody else noticed?

May 26, 2020, 11:40

Go on...

I thought Jantjies with an attacking formation was the 1/2 but that's likely not correct.

May 26, 2020, 11:59

Remember that he said that Rassie’s game is about the flyhalf. Pollard at 10 was plan A. Jantjies at 10 with Pollard moving to 12 was plan B. Willie slotting in at 10, from time to time during in both A and B was the half plan. 

I may be wrong but that is the only explanation I could find, having watched it twice, of what the half plan could be. 

May 26, 2020, 13:28

Game plan 1 was using Pollard playing it direct

Game plan 2 was using Jantjies to speed things up with his brilliant passing putting players into space

Game plan half was a combo of both using Willie at 10 to effectively sort of doing the Jantjies thing when Jantjies was not on the bench which was the case with the 6/2 bench split

May 26, 2020, 13:41

As I said. 

May 26, 2020, 14:11

Ceradyne 

I was the one who referred to the comments of Squidge  on the actual final for people to watch and listen to.   The comments on this video is more or less the same although it covers a wider field.    

May 26, 2020, 14:14

Mike problem is, you don’t get the value Jantjies adds which kind of sums up your grasp of the game don’t you think?

May 26, 2020, 14:30

Dave

There is something that happened more frequently in the major matches and that was to use De Allende as first receiver  with Pollard on his outside,  If Le Roux came in as first receiver he would kick the ball - if De Allende would receive it first he would carry it,  

I do not think Jantjies is really involved in the two and a half game plans.   What tests did Jantjies actually play in last year:-  

RC                     -         Australia

WC Warm-up    -         Argentina

WC                    -         Namibia

                                     Canada

Jantjies was in the team as a dirt tracker and only used in one significant game - namely the RC test against Australia.   For the rest he was too rarely used to be part of any specific game plan.  

May 26, 2020, 14:31

Duplicate

May 26, 2020, 15:15

He may not have a dog in the fight but anyone who rates Elton and Quota Kolisi as top internationals is an idiot. 

Rassie has a lot to do before I'll rate him as more than just an administrator.



May 26, 2020, 15:54

 Posted by: clevermike (41324 posts)

May 26, 2020, 14:11

Ceradyne 

I was the one who referred to the comments of Squidge  on the actual final for people to watch and listen to. 

..... and

 No one, especially the blind fanboys came up with any arguments that  could convince me.

As I said in the OP. 

 Posted by: Ceradyne (9037 posts)

May 25, 2020, 23:32

And before any of the usual fanboys jump in and start beating your chests claiming: "See, I have been telling you all the time but you wouldn't listen....".

.....and

 No one, especially the blind fanboys came up with any arguments that  could convince me.

Guess who was one of the culprits, that I had in mind, when I said that. What I meant was that no breathless worshipping BS did anything to convince me. This, IMO, excellent analysis convinced me. 

This is conclusion. Everyone had their favourite idols and everyone had their pet hates, myself included. Some more or less argued that we won because of Rassie and despite choosing (fill in your pet hates in here) and because he chose (fill in your idols here). 

This guy said that they won because Rassie had the right formula and he chose the right personnel for the job, from the coaching team right down to each and every player. He carefully selected each player because each of them had a special roll to play. Even “Useless” Jantjies, “Fat” Fransie, “Lomp”, “Quota” Kolisi, “Duh” Allende, the whole lot of them. 

If you were so on par, in agreement and in touch with this guy’s observations, right from the start, how come you still rubbish, among others, Frans Steyn and Jantjies’ présence in the squad?

May 26, 2020, 16:03

Mike did you actually watch the guys analysis or did it go over your head? Jantjies was used off the bench prior to the 6/2 split. Used when things needed to be speeded up.

Bullshit re Willie just kicking it. Willie was involved in virtually every try the Boks scored

Clown Cunt - get this into your stupid head no one and I mean no one gives a toss what you think because you know sweet fuck all about the game

That guys opening sentence in his video has said more on the game than your entire contribution on this board for how many endless boring years has it been

Stick to be a homophobic, racist twat - that is your strength if you can call it that

Shut the fuck up Boshoff!!!!

May 26, 2020, 17:00

@Mike. 

“ Jantjies was in the team as a dirt tracker and only used in one significant game - namely the RC test against Australia.   For the rest he was too rarely used to be part of any specific game plan.   “

Since you are such a massive rugby expert and so impressively informed around the game, coaching the game and evaluation of players and game play. Then explain how, why and when, Jantjies was used even on the rare occasion that he was used “For the rest....).

Also explain this. Why would Rassie go to a an important event like the Rugby World Cup, dragging along useless fifth wheels like Jantjies and Frans Steyn? 

Look, I have by implication, conceded right from the start that I had my reservations about certain players in the squad. I also conceded that I had my reservations about Rassie. Even after winning the bloody thing. 


May 26, 2020, 17:13

Well as Moz will confirm I was the first by far to recognize the great ability of Rassie as I was touting him when Rassie was coaching and captaining Free State. You can't get earlier that that. 

Oaks you really do need to pay close attention to what Beeno says.  I find myself so ahead of the oaks it gets lonely at times!

Rassie developed a power pack that could dominate for 80 minutes. Great defence, a flyhalf who was great at managing the game and a backline with A good degree of flair. Hard in your face rugby. Warriors all. 

All this of course is traditional Bok rugby. 

Rassie is a guy who pays huge attention to detail. Remember him giving a talk at Newlands. Every Stormers player had a laptop. Every week theY had to do certain things and work on aspects of their game. Every aspect was planned. Cobus Visage said Rassie was the sharpest rugby brain he had ever encountered. No surprise. 

Rassie won the RWC without even having the liberty to pick his best side. But he made it work. Every player played better with him as coach. 

So well done Rassie and the Boks. Well done also to the astute Beeno who spotted the talent, understood what Rassie was doing and got it right to an extraordinary degree. 

As for the frot wee cc he was left very red faced when the Boks became the world champions and cc became the GOAT  champion of the world. Bwhahahahaha. 

As for Sharktwit can't recall when the hatter started being a fan of Rassie but was it after the Boks won the RWC? 

May 26, 2020, 18:07

Seeing as though everyone is hopping on the bandwagon, I may as well do it too. I have been recommending people watch Squidge's clips since well before the world cup, but my advice was mostly ignored. No matter though, as long as people are starting to wake up to just how good his analysis actually is. Also, keep your finger on the space bar when watching his videos...every time writing pops up on the screen, click pause and read what he has said...it is normally bloody funny, and you often miss it just playing at normal speed.   


Cera, as you have noted, he clearly points out the value of players like PSDT without prejudice and with specifically selected stats that only support his side of the argument. 

A brilliant commentator that we should all support. 

May 26, 2020, 18:40

 Posted by: Beeno1 (32168 posts)

May 26, 2020, 17:13

Well as Moz will confirm I was the first by far to recognize the great ability of Rassie as I was touting him when Rassie was coaching and captaining Free State. You can't get earlier that that. 

When did you raise the arguments that were raised in this video? That is my point. You were, like all of us jumping on some players and praising others with all kinds of theories about who deserved to be in the squad, who should not have been, who were lucky to be there, etc. If anybody asked you, before the tournament, “Why Rassie?”, it would have been the same BS as usual. “He is a rugby genius. He has a great rugby brain. He won the CC, once. He turned around the WP/Stormers to achieve.... what exactly?“.

I am asking you the same question as I asked Mike. If you were so certain that Rassie was so brilliant, then why did you question his squad choices? Why did you not know then that he made the right choices and that he chose the right player for every roll?

@Bluebok. I grant you that you, and Mike for that matter, mentioned Squidge and IIRC, I started looking at his stuff after one of your posts. 

What I am saying, though, is that none of all the hundreds (thousands) of arguments and discourses on this forum convinced me about Rassie or any of the players who I criticised. This video, however, laid it bare for me. 

May 26, 2020, 18:41

Dave

Jantjies was used off  the bench in some games in  2018 - never once in  2019.   So I still think that there is no chance that in the game plans Erasmus really finalized any involvement with a dirt tracker would be in the game plan.

As to Le Roux being first receiver - sorry you are wrong - when  Le Roux came on as first receiver he makes strategic kicks - when he comes into the backline wider out he takes part in attacking ,moves.  Just have a look at what happened just before the scoring of the Mapimpi try and see the example of what mostly happened when  Le Roux was first receiver,             

May 26, 2020, 20:24

Windpomp sorry oak if you are too dumb to know why so very obviously Rassiis a great coach you cant be helped. Bit like asking why Barry Richards was a great batsmen - does one have to spell out every detail!    Nevertheless, since Rassie"s Free State years i have said quite a bit about why Rassiis so good.

All you are trying to do is minimise the insights of those who recognized the obvious truth to minimise you own slow reaction to what was obvious. Bwahahahahahahahaha

Your new Hero talks too fast. Always be careful of such people as they can slip in a whole load of crud without most noticing.   

His take on Kolisi was funny but to be fair he made some good points so credit too him. Can't say though that there much that was not obvious. EG we all knew or should have known that Rassie was laying the groundwork and then fine tuning. further it was obvious that you cant have only a plan and nothing more etc etc.

Most know stats are suggestive but not the whole story so no great kudos there.

One would have to go through the tape word by fast word to assess the real merit. One fears ou Windpomp is really star stuck with the fellow although had he had been paying attention he would be saying  not too much here. The guy was getting it right and was accurately for the most part telling how things were done which again was pretty obvious.

Man for how long have there been pods on both sides of the scrum. For how long have defenders used the touchline as part of their defence strategy!!!  Faf has had many option to pass to pass to. we all knew all that stuff.

Better stop lest ou Windpomp has a seizure!:D

Pakster you are a genius for recommending the oak to be sure in awe etc.

 


May 26, 2020, 21:41

While I was busy compiling the opening post on this thread I was thinking to myself who would be the first to claim the “I cannot told you so, prise”. 

I got it wrong. I was convinced it would be ou Maaikie. Unfortunately he was narrowly beaten by the used car salesman. Beeno surprised me a bit by leaving for quite some time before claiming his share of the limelight. 

The one question that remains unanswered is the one that could prove beyond any doubt that they were knowledgeable enough to know exactly why Rassie was the man for the job. If they were so deeply convinced that Rassie was perfect, why did they question the inclusion of Jantjies, Steyn, Kolisi, Mostert, etc. After watching the video, do you still doubt the inclusion of these guys. Do you also still believe that Kolisi should not have been in the squad, let alone, getting the nod as captain? 

Ou Maaikie’s explanation, even after watching the video, of Jantjies’ role in the squad, is proof enough that he had no idea why Rassie was da man. 

Beeno was right in saying that Rassie had a good rugby brain, but he didn’t what made his such a good rugby brain. None of his arguments addressed that, other than his idol like admiration of the man. 

I can remember having an argument about Rassie many moons ago, after another of Beeno’s tirades over “all of Rassie’s achievements”, and that was before he went to Munster. His major argument was winning the CC with Freestate at Loftus. My argument was that Rassie had the right game plan for that particular game. What did he do? He loaded his bench with, wait for it......... forwards, doing what? Waiting till just after half time and then replacing his entire front row with an almost identical front two. Now where have we seen that? Oh yes, this video. Beeno, of course wouldn’t hear anything about the fact that after all of that, Rassie’s side was actually handed the win on a silver platter. How? Between two of the best Blue Bulls backs, non other than Fourie du Preez and Johan Roets, they fumbled a high ball, in injury time, by running into each other, only for Meyer Bosman to pick up the ball and score under the posts. What did Rassie achieve at in Cape Town. The Cape guys will start hyperventilating, telling us of all the great running rugby and brilliant defence that he introduced but we are still waiting to hear what he has achieved. 

That was why I never believed in Rassie, even when he won the RWC. That is why this video, to me, was such and eye opener. Not a single argument by anyone on this board, least of all three of the bright sparks who claimed to be the experts on Rassie that they want us to believe. 

I rest my case. 

May 26, 2020, 22:07

Mike you are speaking shit

May 26, 2020, 22:24

1. Rassie did well as soon as he started coaching the Cheatas. First 2 seasons as a coach he was in the final of Currie Cup rugby.

2. Went to WP, Stormers. Almost instantly Rassies team has an excellent attack and defence. Wins lots of games in New Zealand

Rassie was head coach and Coetzee assistant coach. Rassie took pressure from the WP management team, possibly racism against Rassie (Nick Mallett had just left WP under similar clouds). Rassie becomes Director of Rugby. WP continues to do well, but a bit less effective on the attack.

3. Rassie leaves WP. The attack of the Stormers becomes pathetic. The defence remains good, but each season the team gets a bit worse. Strength of team is defence. Jaques Neibaber still defence coach. Some long time WP players leave and the team starts to unravel.
Clearly Alister Coetzee was useless and just riding the Rassie gravey train.

4. Rassie Director Of Springboks. Does backroom stuff and juniors, not very noticeable. Rassie leaves to Munster. 

5. Munster do well from the very first season, and again in second season. Won Pro14 in the first season

6. Alister Coetzee is now Bok coach, and it is clear how useless he is. Rassie returns as director of rugby. 

7. Alister Coetzee throws his toys out of the cot and claims he is a better coach than Rassie. (Like back at Stormer's days). 

8. Rassie becomes coach. First-year was hit or miss.
When they were good they were great, when they were bad they at least had a solid defence.

9. Rassie second season. His B team thrashed Australia. The defence had improved more, and attack was much better. Combinations and game plan very settled.

10. Rassie wins the World Cup, coach of the year, team of the year, player of the year. etc, etc





May 26, 2020, 23:26

No use repeating the historical facts. Facts that all of us know in any case. Let alone  inflating it with adjectives. 

I have often acknowledged Rassie’s ability to analyse an upcoming situation and devising a plan for that particular situation. I was not convinced of his abilities and may I repeat it once again because you are so busy using all your used car salesman tricks to sell the pre-2019RWC Rassie to me, that you keep on missing my entire point. 

Nobody on this board raised the points that was made in this video. They were all broad assertions by armchair “experts”. If everyone  was only 10% as knowledgable  as they thought they were, we would at least have seen a few of the points that this guy has made in the video. 

I’ll say again. If you were so convinced about Rassie’s coaching acumen, then why did everybody have any doubts about any of the players that were included in the squad, including the choice of the captain. There were a continuous stream of bitching and arguing about Jantjies, Frans Steyn, Mostert, Kolisi, Malherbe, Lood, PSDT, etc. This video pointed out that each and every player had a specific and often unique role. 

If, specifically you, Beeno and Mike, who are now claiming accolades had as much acumen as you claim to have, none of you would have questioned the inclusion of any of those. 

May 26, 2020, 23:38

The difference between this guy and us armchairs is that he watches each game over and over in order to dissect it all and pick up on patterns like the Boks mostly running 5 phases before attempting a launch

I love the game but not to the point I could watch each game over and over to reach the conclusions he does

It’s impressive stuff. Our resident Aug fancies himself as being on this guys level. Unfortunately his takes are devoid of facts and tainted with prejudice

May 26, 2020, 23:50

May 26, 2020, 23:26


I’ll say again. If you were so convinced about Rassie’s coaching acumen, then why did everybody have any doubts about any of the players that were included in the squad, including the choice of the captain. There were a continuous stream of bitching and arguing about Jantjies, Frans Steyn, Mostert, Kolisi, Malherbe, Lood, PSDT, etc. This video pointed out that each and every player had a specific and often unique role. 


--------------                --------------               --------------               --------------

I don't remember saying they should not be in the squad- especially in more recent years. Most of those players are second or first choice. 


Jantjies: 3 SuperRugby finals in a row. He has improved over time, and I had noticed that the backline ran better on the attack with Jantjies and 10 and Pollard was shifted to 12. Jantjies gives lots of options with his passing and running lines. 

Frans Steyn- Would have been my preferred choice to start the world cup games, but Delande was in good form. Even if he has lost some pace, he is still an effective allround player on defence and attack. Esterhuizen is perhaps the third best. 

Mostert-  Good player, but with the depth that SA have it is not an easy selection. He is small but has a high work rate and mobility. Having Steph at 7 and Mostert at 5, is a bit like having Matfield at lock with Danie Rossouw at blindside flank.


Kolisi- A small number 8 playing at 6. Does very little fetching, but is strong in other areas of the game. Better as a linking number 8 than a fetcher. Arguably lucky to be in the starting team, but the next best option was Francios Louw. I would have preferred Flouw to start as he reaches more breakdowns. 


Malherbe- I have been critical of this player in the past. such as bellyflop scrums. However, he seems to take a while to get back into form after an injury. Played well at World Cup, like the form he had when he first started for the Boks. 

Lood-  Different player to Mostert, but is good quality. Can do some stupid stuff sometimes, so Mosert maybe a safer bet. Bigger and stronger than Mostert, but less finesse. 

PSDT- I criticised his first games at 7 under Meyer at the world cup. He played some games at lock and got better after a season or 2.  Then moved to back to 7. Ben Youngs exposed his defence, and the Boks looked slow around the base of the ruck under Alister Coetzee.

Rassie worked on him and transformed him into a specialist 7 in skill and conditioning. He got better and better, now the Boks can have him on the field and 2 locks to accommodate excess lock stock. 

May 26, 2020, 23:59

Actually I agree with Turncoat....Erasmus needed to kick on and establish a winning record against the ABs. Until he does that it all remains unclear. Losing to the ABs and beating Wales and the Poms at a WC is not establishing yourself as number 1. 


I think we beat England and Wales through defence and set pieces. That created so much  opportunity even our very average offense had to score a few tries. And through the almost flawless kicking of Pollard...miss one of those last few kicks against Wales and we likely would have lost.


There were some other tactical bits...like the 3 man attacking and defensive pods....the rush onto Ford....Allende rushing onto  Biggar.


All pretty much traditional Bok rugby. The only mystery is why fans like Mike, Biltongbek and others were so sure we had to play a new game vs just execute our own game well. If HM and Coetzee failed it was because they bought that nonsense.

May 27, 2020, 00:23

Moz the only thing I agree with you on this is that Rassie needs to turn the tide on the AB’s in order to take his already impressive showing to the next level

If he actually sticks around he has the potential to be a great. He is on another level in terms of foresight and tactical awareness

Your take on our attack is bullshit, we had a great year in that department, both shown in the quarter and final

May 27, 2020, 00:50

@Ceradunce, Rassie has had success where ever he has gone, almost instantly. His CV that I listed proves this. 

Since his disco light days onto the stadium, surprise bench choices - he is clearly a good thinker of the game. 

May 27, 2020, 01:14

@SB. Hindsight is 20/20 vision. When and where have you said that prior to me starting this thread?

This is you, just now. 

 Frans Steyn- Would have been my preferred choice to start the world cup games, but Delande was in good form. Even if he has lost some pace, he is still an effective allround player on defence and attack. Esterhuizen is perhaps the third best

This was you in Nov 2017:

 Posted by: sharkbok (11703 posts)

Nov 06, 2017, 23:23

Fat Fransie, like wine matures with age- but will eventually get sour. 

Fat Fermented Fransie

Oops. 

 Posted by: sharkbok (11704 posts)

May 27, 2020, 00:50

@Ceradunce, Rassie has had success where ever he has gone, almost instantly. His CV that I listed proves this. 

A CV should list all of one’s accomplishments. 

His CV pre RWC 2019 reflects a CC victory in 2004, (or was it 2005? whatever) and the Pro 14 years later. The rest are opinions and those don’t count on any CV. 

May 27, 2020, 01:39

@SB on this thread:

“  I don't remember saying they should not be in the squad- especially in more recent years. Most of those players are second or first choice. 

“ Jantjies: 3 SuperRugby finals in a row. He has improved over time, and I had noticed that the backline ran better on the attack with Jantjies and 10 and Pollard was shifted to 12. Jantjies gives lots of options with his passing and running lines. 

SB in Jan 2018:

 Posted by: sharkbok (11704 posts)

Jun 25, 2018, 13:10

Willemse and Jantjies may be similar players. They both thrive in space. Jantjies, unfortunately, is not test standard because he does not have time and space at this level.


Willemse is, however, more physical, and I doubt he would have made so many basic errors like fumbling basic high ball catches.  “

That makes Jantjies quite a crappy flyhalf and puts him in third spot behind Pollard and Willemse.....in your opinion of course. 

May 27, 2020, 01:45

My comments on Jantjies for the last 3 years have been mostly positive. He did have a terrible test in the rain at Newlands - at the time of my post you copied. He got lots of negative press- and it was under Alister Coetzee of course. 


I spoke about on this thread that he is not good in wet weather. 

--
Frans Steyn I have supported for a long time. Your comment showed that he gets better with age like wine. 

May 27, 2020, 09:31

Ou Vrottie, I suggest you give up on this one. 

You clearly lost the argument the minute when you decided to ignore my warning, in the opening post, by not only claiming to have had the ability to convince me about Rassie’s specific expertise and intricate planning concerning the detailed role of every player in the squad. No, you even, audaciously and arrogantly demanded that I owe you an apology. 

What makes your demand even more hilarious is the fact that you were thereby implicitly asserting that you have indeed already convinced me about Rassie’s abilities, in the same way that Squidge has set it out when he compiled this particular piece of video evidence, and that I have just, perhaps due to my staunch Afrikaner upbringing, my pride for my mother tongue, the religious teachings of my church and my in unwavering support for the evil Apartheid government, not yet recognised it. 

What next? Are you going to claim to have been guiding Squidge and provided him with the material to compile the video?

Oh wait. Better watch out, I see your boss coming. He seems to be pissed off. He’s carrying a bucket and some rags. Have you forgotten to start washing the used cars again? No way you gonna be selling any if they’re dirty and covered in bird shit. 

May 27, 2020, 10:06

"Also explain this. Why would Rassie go to a an important event like the Rugby World Cup, dragging along useless fifth wheels like Jantjies and Frans Steyn?"

Really? You need an explanation?

Ok!! Let me have a crack at it.

Let me see ... um ... Rassie committed himself to transformation ... in other words ... favouring the black man over the more talented white players ... for the sake of keeping his job and appeasing his racist masters.

I’m surprised you don’t know this. I guess you’ve lost touch living abroad and all.

Any way ... his selection choices were largely based on this. Merit had no choice but to take a backseat ... and so the search began for native representation. Their names would be first on the list ... and whatever positions they didn’t take up would be filled in by the whites later.   

He tried to reach the 50% target he’d committed himself to, but that was a bridge too far ... as he had set himself certain standards and refused to go below the absolute chump level that most natives represent.

Any player worse than the useless Elton Jantjies and Kolisi would not be considered.

This limited him to but a hand full and so in his quest to make up the numbers, he was forced to bring some borderline chump selections in ... like Am, Bongi and Gelant.

It didn’t matter that there were a lot better white options available ... he needed to make up the numbers ... and had no choice but to go with these useless quotas.   

Elton Jantjies was among those called up. Why you may ask ... well it certainly wasn’t for anything rugby related. He spent the better part of the competition visiting the sights in Japan. My guess, and I’m taking a shot in the dark here, is that maybe ... the colour of his skin had something to do with it. What do you think? Could that be it? I don’t know. It’s a puzzle to me.

I mean the former “best” 10 in the land suddenly finds himself struggling to make the bench. Why  ... he’s a top international rugby player ... right?  

 I can only chalk it down to a fully paid up holiday for “services” rendered.

Look at Quota Kolisi. He was made a temporary capt until those better suited for the leadership returned from injury. Rassie thought he’d win some brownie points with this absurd gesture ... but in his naivety found himself forced into a corner. He had no option but to keep this useless quota listed as Goats kapitan.

He now had to make space for this chump in every match. To his credit, he did try to place the quota elsewhere but it seems he was just as useless there. He even sent him on a crash course to learn how to play on the openside. .

Hilarious stuff I must say.

Talk about having your back to the wall.

The Goats are being led by a man who has no clue how to do his job. Not as an openside flank ... nor as a captain.

If that’s not bad enough ... he also thought it wise to include a few elderly players into the mix. Players that could in no way contribute to the team on the same level as those younger, hungrier, stronger, quicker and with far more talent.

In comes a chump that could never cement his spot as a Goat when he was 10 years younger. Schalk Brits. Out goes the best hooker in the country for this useless neverbeen.  

Frans Louw is another elderly player included. For what purpose I have no idea. Rumour has it that Rassie wanted a few close friends to go along with him to Japan. He promised them a spot in the squad at a braai over a beer.  

Another mate of his that goes back to his days at the Free State ... Duane Vermeulen is also invited to come along. The poor man can only manage 20 minutes on the field before vanishing ... and this only every other game. Meanwhile  the best 8 in the country sits at home.

Turns out that the old adage of “it’s not what you know, but rather who you know” has merit.

Once upon a time, there was a young talent making a name for himself. He had it all and looked as if he’d go on to become one of the greatest players ever to don the Bok’s jersey. Sadly arrogance, regular brain farts, narcissistic tendencies and showboating would be his end. He too was included in the mix. The hyped up Frans Steyn lost his mojo 10 years ago. What a massive disappointment he turned out to be.

As to your question ... I’m afraid there is no logical thinking that I can find behind most of Rassie’s selections. He somehow came away the winner in last year’s WC ... and now enjoys god status among the ignorant.

Sorry ... I did try to make sense of it all ... but couldn’t.

 


May 27, 2020, 10:45

But they won. 

Against all odds. Against coaches who did not have to consider a fraction of one percent of what he had to bear in mind. 

May 27, 2020, 12:37

Well ... let's see how long this genius can keep his team at the top of world rugby.

Let's see if this genius can dominate the world like the All Blacks have the last decade.



May 27, 2020, 13:30

That is the unknown at this stage. We'll have to wait and see, won't we?

May 27, 2020, 13:50

Too many oaks like rooitwit etc were all a twitter about Rassie and the roof lights bit of fun. Rooitwit can about never see the wood ftom the trees. The buffoon thought Trump wanted to inject people with some sort of deadly disinfectant. How daft is that!!

Wee cc is very bitter about the Boks triumph. Sad to see but he was so hoping Rassie and the Boks would crash. 

But we need to see clearly what ou Windpomper is up to.

Basically the Windpomp was excruciatingly embarrassed that he got it all wrong. 

Windpomper was watching Rassie coaching since Rassie's Free State days and knows his outstanding record.

But now he insists those recognizing Rassie great ability as a coach didn't explain it to him so he can't be blamed for getting it wrong and nobody can take credit for getting it right. 

Windpomper say he has changed his mind because his new hero explained to him why Rassie is so good. Ou Windpomp admits he didn't have a clue dispite having seen Rassie coached teams at wotk!

Because he couldn't understand why Rassie was good nobody else could they were just guessing. 

Now I and others have made probably 1000s of post saying why Rassie is good. As well as Rassue' s coaching record, the opinions of others and all these numerous posts collectively detailing why Rassie is good ou Windpomp insists on blaming others for his monumental error of judgement.

As for team selection I mentioned at the time we would never know what team Rassie would have picked had there been no quota impositions. The wonderful achievement is that Rassie made it all work. All the Boks returned home heads held high. 

The Rassie bashers were crushed. 

Even after Rassie being named coach of the year, Boks team of the year, and Du Toit player of the year ou Windpomp didn't change his mind. The oak needed an out and now is blaming Rassie supporters for not explaining suffienctly why Rassie was good. 

You cant make up this nonsense!

Now we have poor wee cc hoping that the Boks will crash so that Rassie somehow will be all to blame. I suspect others feel the same but are to embarrassed to say so. 

I congratulate Windpomper for a hilarious thread. 

Although Sharktwit obviously was following my lead he has to get some credit for doing so but even a stuck clock gets it right two times a day!! :D


May 27, 2020, 13:53

Wee cc hopes as many players as possible leave SA so as to make Niebers Jon as hard as possible. 

If Nieaber fails Rassie fails. Wee cc imagines Rassie is still effectively the coach although that is clearly not so. Rassie will have influence for sure but not having him fully on the job is NOT the same really. 

Hoping Nieaber and the Boks continue to do well. 

May 27, 2020, 14:55

Ok, Beeno. Let’s look at what it is that you posted that was so amazingly informative.

First paragraph:

 Too many oaks like rooitwit etc were all a twitter about Rassie and the roof lights bit of fun. Rooitwit can about never see the wood ftom the trees. The buffoon thought Trump wanted to inject people with some sort of deadly disinfectant. How daft is that!!  “

Rassie, roof lights, Rooies, Trump? Yeah. Makes perfect sense.:D

Next paragraph:

“ Wee cc is very bitter about the Boks triumph. Sad to see but he was so hoping Rassie and the Boks would crash.  “

More irrelevant and nonsensical BS. 

“  But we need to see clearly what ou Windpomper is up to.

Basically the Windpomp was excruciatingly embarrassed that he got it all wrong. 

Embarrassed? If you say so, although, if I really was embarrassed, I would have kept my mouth shut and not say a word. Think about it. 

“  Windpomper was watching Rassie coaching since Rassie's Free State days and knows his outstanding record.

Yeah I know. He won the CC and then pissed off to a bigger union for a bigger cheque where he achieved........ bugger all. 

 But now he insists those recognizing Rassie great ability as a coach didn't explain it to him so he can't be blamed for getting it wrong and nobody can take credit for getting it right  “

You still do not understand why you had blind faith in him. You didn’t know. Otherwise you would have explained it. 

“  Windpomper say he has changed his mind because his new hero explained to him why Rassie is so good. Ou Windpomp admits he didn't have a clue dispite having seen Rassie coached teams at wotk!

Yeah I did see Rassie coached teams work before he found a reason to run away. I saw them winning nothing.

“ Because he couldn't understand why Rassie was good nobody else could they were just guessing.  “ 

Damn right I couldn’t because his record certainly reflected nothing.

 Now I and others have made probably 1000s of post saying why Rassie is good. As well as Rassue' s coaching record, the opinions of others and all these numerous posts collectively detailing why Rassie is good ou Windpomp insists on blaming others for his monumental error of judgement.  “

Thousands of posts mean nothing. You could add another two zeros, it would still meaning nothing because that is what it said. Nothing.

“  As for team selection I mentioned at the time we would never know what team Rassie would have picked had there been no quota impositions. The wonderful achievement is that Rassie made it all work. All the Boks returned home heads held high. 

You’re right. You wouldn’t know. Even after winning the RWC, you still couldn’t explain the presence of all the usual suspects in the squad. 

“  Even after Rassie being named coach of the year, Boks team of the year, and Du Toit player of the year ou Windpomp didn't change his mind. The oak needed an out and now is blaming Rassie supporters for not explaining suffienctly why Rassie was good. 

You’re right. I couldn’t figure out how he managed to pull it off and none of the arguments on this forum, least of all your brown nosing of him brought me any closer to understanding. 

As for the rest of your ramblings about CC and Shark, feel free to take it up with them.  

There. Got it?


May 27, 2020, 16:10

I see BeanDip is ready with his excuse.

Haaaahahahahaaa!!

"It's not Rassie's fault, man ... it's that damn physio therapist's fault."

Question is ... how far will the Goats fall within a rugby year?

Even their most devoted fans aren't too confident about retaining their current ranking.

They come aboard here with all kinds of boastful remarks ... "coach of the year ... team of the year ... player of the year ... blah, blah, blah" ... till you bring up their ranking and whether they'll still be top dog this time next year. Then suddenly the tone changes.

You speak of whether they see their team dominating the rugby world and suddenly all goes quiet.

What does that tell you?

It tells me that deep down inside, they all know that their WC victory was an absolute fluke. A freak of nature .. and that they're expecting their team of quotas to plummet down the table to where they belong ... 7th.

Talk about a wake up call waiting. 

 


May 27, 2020, 16:26

So the Boks need to match the best rugby team ever in history to be considered good? 

Actually they have the peer respect of professional rugby players around the world which is more important.

Even Eddie Jones said that the Boks would have beat any team the way they played in the final...

The finished the season ranked first in the world in the IRB rankings, and winners of the world cup. Many other rugby test teams would be happy with that. 
And Rassie has politics to deal with that other countries do not have. 

May 27, 2020, 17:09

Yeah yeah, SharkShit ... heard it all before.

Just add your list of excuses to BeanDip's.

You'll need them for when your team of quotas crash and burn.

We both know that that's inevitable.



May 28, 2020, 08:46

See what I mean .. !!!?


May 28, 2020, 12:08

Cunt, do you honestly think anyone gives a shit what you think given your bag full of prejudices

Do you think anything you say is derived from an objective formulation?

Seriously - give it up man, no one gives a shit

You’re a worthless prick who knows sweet fuck all about the game

May 28, 2020, 12:26

Dave

Agree with you about that.

May 28, 2020, 13:10

Wee cc yes it's inevitable that nobody stays at the top. We all know that. 

How about getting rid of all bitterness oak. 


May 28, 2020, 13:17

My thoughts on Rassie:

  1. I liked him as a player, but he was no Bok great in my book.

  2. As coach? He started off as player coach at Vrystaat IIRC. I think he made an impact immediately and that was reflected in their CC success.

  3. Same thing at WP and the Stormers. Immediate improvement but unfortunately he won no trophies. He took the team from nowhere and made the finals of SR and CC in 2010.

  4. In 2011 Rassie was helping Snorre preparing the Boks for the 2011 RWC. I don't really know what his exact contributions were, but IMO there was a marked difference in the team's performance after the training camp. We played well against the Aussies, but a juvenile error in tactics lost us the game in the end.

  5. As a WP  man, I was disappointed when he left WP and IMO, WP and the Stormers gradually got weaker after the 2010 peak. I know we won some trophies since, but that's because the opposition got weaker too and not because WP got better.

  6. I never was much of an Alistair Coetzee fan, but I never was much against him either. I still think his track record was good enough to give him the Bok coaching job in 2016. He was actually the South African coach with the longest solid track record. Rassie was out of the lime light by that time and operated in the background, so he wasn't really an option.

  7. Well, Coetzee was a bit unlucky IMO. He inherited a team with lots of players who retired and had to be replaced and the replacements weren't so obvious. I was in the crowd at Newlands when we lost against 14 Irishmen...his first match and the Bok'sfirst loss to Ireland on home soil...he never got back from that. Funny how his last match in South Africa was also at Newlands. The match that actually started our fight back against NZ...the match we lost by a single point, a few weeks after the 57 - 0 drubbing.

  8. Rassie replaced Alistair and somehow things turned around immediately. Suddenly the fight was back. We started winning matches that we would have lost in the past. We came back from trailing far behind. He gave us hope again, but more importantly he gave the team hope and belief...a never give up attitude...HEART...and the RWC. 
  9. Thanks Rassie.

May 28, 2020, 13:29

“  Posted by: sharkbok (11708 posts)

May 27, 2020, 16:26

So the Boks need to match the best rugby team ever in history to be considered good? 

Actually they have the peer respect of professional rugby players around the world which is more important.

Even Eddie Jones said that the Boks would have beat any team the way they played in the final...

The finished the season ranked first in the world in the IRB rankings, and winners of the world cup. Many other rugby test teams would be happy with that. 

And Rassie has politics to deal with that other countries do not have. 

These are the kind of arguments that are often heard. 

Nobody disagrees that the Boks are good. They fact that it is a travesty whenever they fall out of the top three in the rankings, is testament to that. 

Fact is that they have never been able to maintain the top spot, is the one aspect that will keep counting against them until they manage to do so. That, IMO, is what the message really seems to be. For Rassie to really maintain his current mantra the Boks will have to stay on the top for much much longer than they have managed to do in the past. 

They have always had peer respect. Always, even when they were down to below fifth in the rankings. Nothing new there. It’s a rugby thing. Always respect everyone. 

What Eddie Jones have said is true because it is Eddie Jones who have said it. Pity that it does not seem true to some detractors when we talk about 2007. Whenever anybody say that we would have beaten the ABs in the 2007 final as well, they are laughed at. 

The politics that Rassie had to deal with were no different from the political pressures that anyone of his predecessors had to deal with. I would actually say that he had much less to deal with. 

CC, though, is correct. You can probably say that I have been red pilled about his abilities but somewhere, in the back of my mind I cannot get away from one thing. 

Rassie will always be Rassie. He was not directly involved with coaching the Stormers for a long while but he knew. Whenever the Stormers did well, his loyalists would proclaim that it was because of his work behind the scenes. But when things went wrong, it was because of the ineptitude of Coetzee. 

His new role seems to be looking a lot like the scenario at the WP between him and Coetzee. If the Boks stay on top, it will be down to Rassie and not Nienaber, et al. If they take a tumble, it will be because of Nienaber, et al, and not Rassie. 

I will take a lot of shots for having said that but, at this stage, only time will prove me right or wrong. Nobody can say, beyond any doubt, that I’m right or wrong. Not even the most diehard Rassie fans. They will try. You can be sure of that.

May 28, 2020, 13:31

Windpomp please ask if you need the game explained to you. There are a number people here who can explain things to you. 

Don't blame others for your not understanding the game or the posts of many who explained why Rassie was good. 

Under Rassie Free State won two of their 3 Currie Cup titles. 

They reach the Super Rugby final and got Crooked out of a win. The ref was coaching the Bulls said the very honorable Schalk Burger. He won over seas. 

He won the 4 nations. He won the RWC. 

Stop being a loser Windpomper and admit you were wrong and the fault lies with you. 

Bwhahahahaha ou Windpomper has disappeared into the pit he has dug for himself!! 

May 28, 2020, 13:56

Mark Andrews in his interview with Gavin Rich that for a period pre Rassie he could not watch the Boks as they were no longer playing for the jersey and should have made themselves unavailable for selection as he and Teichmann and co had done when Carel was coach.

He says the fight and pride is back thanks to Rassie

May 28, 2020, 15:05

Beeno, if you were so clued up about Rassie why have you;

a. questioned his selections,

b. tagged along with the rest of us criticising Faf’s kicking, and

c. never recognised his two and a half game plans. 

The only ones who sort of recognised some game plan were those who had Jantjies in there because “he was better in wet conditions” and nothing else. The only ones who, as far as I can remember, saw anything else in Jantjies were Saffex and Plum. 

Your only reason for supporting Rassie was your blind faith in his abilities, which is also OK. 

I keep on telling you, no matter how hard you would want to convince me otherwise, you never came up with anything that would have convinced me about Rassie’s abilities. 

For me, and you may (rightfully) argue that is was because of my bias against the guy, it matter of believing that he was the real deal. As you can see from my earlier post, I now believe that he has the abilities but I also still have the same concern that I have always had. His Bona Fides. 

May 28, 2020, 15:09

I want to make one comment and that is the issue of the All Blacks,   In all four years Meyer - a hero of Mozart - the Springbok played 8 tests against the AB's.  The results were 7 losses and 1 win.   In the case of Coetzee the Springboks played 4 games against the AB's and lost all four - two by record margins

In the case of Erasmus the Sprngboks played 4 tests against the AB's, in which -

*   a never achieved away win against the AB's in Wellington since a win in 2008 in Dunedin;

*  a never achieved previous draw in an away match  against the AB's; and 

*   two losses both rather narrow losses.

In the discussion of the final in the NZ TV program The Breakdown the AB experts present seemingly agree on the point that the way the Springboks played in the final, the AB's would have no chance in beating the Springboks.

Unlike under Meyer and Coetzee the Erasmus squad was very competitive against the AB's.  In the one game in 2018 they lost by 2 points and in the other because of an intercept try and a try scored because of poor defense by Mostert they won by 13 points.  That was a  vast improvement of what happened under Meyer and Coetzee,

I do believe the Springboks will obviously have to beat the AB's as many times as possible, but do not see that as a major problem like it used to be during the past decade and definitely agree with what the AB commentators said about the fact that they thought that the AB's would not have beaten the Springboks in the final.  They realize that the Springboks under Erasmus became more competitive than they used to be under especially Meyer and Coetzee - something that some members on site think will be an insurmountable problem - especially those against Erasmus as coach.           .                 

May 28, 2020, 15:24

And in a flash we're back flogging another dead horse.

May 28, 2020, 15:25


May 28, 2020, 15:47

Windpomper it's stunning to see you say I didn't give you reasons to rate Rassie so you have an excuse for getting it wrong. 

Take responsibility Windpomp. 

Next look through all my posts from the time Rassie starting coaching Free State and I am confident you will find reasons were. 

As you also accuse others of not explain to you why Rassie is not good look at those posts as well. 

Chech also what reasons you have, all wrong no doubt, as to why Rassie was not good.

Hahahahaha ou Windpomper in a pickle! 

May 28, 2020, 15:56

 Next look through all my posts from the time Rassie starting coaching Free State and I am confident you will find reasons were.   “

Nothing but repetitive BS. You’ve been having hard-ons very everything and everyone with any link to the WP, bar Coetzee, and that was only because Rassie was still lurking in the background. You hardly ever mentioned Rassie before his arrival in the Cape, accept when he was won the CC, and that was only because it was the Blue Bulls that he beat. 

May 28, 2020, 19:07

Rassie isn't under any political pressure. He's all for transformation. Including the natives at test level is his passion. He has no qualms about bringing inexperienced black coaches in either.

He feels that they have no need to earn their stripes ... unlike the white coaches who spend years learning the trade. These natives are accustomed to handouts. Why change that?

Even his captain was fast tracked with a crash course on how to play the game ... which as expected, didn't take.

 


May 28, 2020, 22:05

...and yet he still gets results??? Amazing! He's got a feel for balance it seems.

May 28, 2020, 22:46

The natives - fuck off you racist pig

May 29, 2020, 01:09

@Ceradyne, so what can you learn from all of this?
Read my posts before making up your mind, even if they are early stages. 


May 30, 2020, 11:08

@Beeno

While revisiting the earlier posts n this thread, in an effort to try making sense of what the used car salesman was trying to say, I found these two pearls of wisdom:

“  Under Rassie Free State won two of their 3 Currie Cup titles. 

They [The Stormers] reach the Super Rugby final and got Crooked out of a win.

The Cheetahs only won one CC under Rassie, in 2005, at Loftus.

The Stormers never reached a Super Rugby final under Rassie. The final that you are referring to was in 2010 against the Bulls in Soweto, IIRC, and Coetzee was the coach. That was when both Coetzee and Schalk Burger were not man enough to admit defeat. 

Yeah yeah. I know Rassie was the overal head honcho, but that is precisely my point about the Rassie fan girls. When things were good, it was due to Rassie. When they were crap, it was because of Coetzee. Happened back at the Stormers with Rassie and Coetzee. My guess is it may well happen again. 


May 30, 2020, 11:17

“ Posted by: sharkbok (11730 posts)

May 29, 2020, 01:09

@Ceradyne, so what can you learn from all of this? 
Read my posts before making up your mind, even if they are early stages. “

Not much. Least of all from your posts. 

I wasn’t trying to find anything to make something of. 

I was making a point and that was my only intention. 

The point was that;

a. I was never convinced about Rassie’s abilities as a coach and I have now changed my mind, and

b. nobody on this board (including, and maybe in particular, you), prior to me watching that video, said anything to convince me otherwise. 

I stand by my point. Nothing has changed. Despite all your lamentations, including those of Beeno and ou Maaikie.

May 30, 2020, 12:25

"That was when both Coetzee and Schalk Burger were not man enough to admit defeat"

Oh, they admitted defeat, but were p!ssed off by the way the reff handled things...as were all WP fans...The Soweto match was always going to be a brifge too far, but the way Craig Joubert handled that match removed the slightest of changes WP might have hoped to have. Joubert, Dronker and Roos...3 horsemen of the fuckedupalypse:(

May 30, 2020, 12:34

:D:D:D


May 30, 2020, 13:43

Ja, ja, ek weet, ek verdien daai.:D

My favorite Schalla moment was when he very graphically told Willie Roos: "Jy moet jou fokken oë oopmaak!"...He got a couple of weeks suspension for that IIRC.:D


Goeie ou dae...

 
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