J Ellis, Burger and S du Toit.

Schalk, Andre Venter, Ruben Kruger, PSDT, Rob Louw, Juan Smith and Rassie

Dave, I must admit that I forgot about those great flanks.

Rassie!

I wasn't a fan of Burger Geldenhuys, but he wasn't half bad either....and I heard much about Jan Boland Coetzee, but haven't seen him play.

Best 7 was Juan Smith. Best 6 Brussow. Best utility loosie was Schalk. Evolved into a very well rounded player, probably most well-rounded flank we've ever seen. 

I saw Jan Boland playing - he was ultra-good.   Juan Smith was a good loosie with a fair share of butter-fingers - he was good in the WC in 2007 - but I would never rate him as a great loosie,  Brussow was good at breakdowns -  but never a great all round loosie,   I think that of the loosies with all-round abillity Rob Louw was the best - followed by Schalk Burger.  I must add that Naas Botha was so scared of Rob - he dropped the ball when he saw him coming,      

Of the crowd since 2012 - Pieter-Steph du Toit is the best and reasonable and knowledgeable people will rate him as a real great,     

Steph was rightly ranked 17th best flank last season. Poor defender, poor in the line out, average skills. Had his moments at the breakdown, very languid ball carrier. Kills phase play with slow stodgy ball. 

Brussow was never outplayed by McCaw, Pocock or Hooper. Was the single biggest factor in us winning the 2009 TNs. In fact, without him, 2009 becomes 2010. 

PSDT was never ever ranked 17th he was ranked number 1 as that is the position he holds in the game

This very fact evidences what an complete ignorant twit you are

Actually no, his RPI was 17th. Rightly so. Steph isn't in the top 20 flanks in the game. A very vulnerable defender, stodgy ball carrier and average at lineout time. We don't need him in the squad. We have better. 

Hahahahahahahahah Organhuffer having a terrible day!

Tell me who was voted 2019 rugby player of the year

who was voted world team of the year

who was voted coach of the year

do you know?

Please answer each question H uffer!

Humbug Herr Sitzsack! 

What a load of shit

A great player doesn't get duped running into the wrong man. Steph is a huge vulnerability on defence. And a below average ball carrier. In fact, in last year's Super rugby season, Steph was ranked 28th out of the top 30 carriers of the South African teams, at 1.7m per carry. This is only a fraction below his figures for the Boks. And don't get me started on his rushes around the fringes that persistently allow attackers into easy space. He is a hindrance. Currently only has two clean games: The Wallaby win at home and the loss at Twickenham. 

That BS from AO is never=ending,  He proves every time he knows zero about rugby.     

Really, shall we not revisit the World Cup. Lets see now, Steph running into the wrong man and leaving a gaping void, and the infamous fringe gap you blamed, yet again, on Mostert. For shame Mikenocchio. 

PSDT was the heart of the team...Rassie realised his potential after the match against Wales in Washington. PSDT wasn't initially part of the Rassie-plan, but that all changed after the first few test.

I'm surprised more is not written about this. A pity PSDT's detractors can't see this...this is at the core of a team sport. This is what makes good teams great teams...and trust me. It was a great team that beat the Poms in the final last year.

Player of the year got the team of the year over the line...and the coach of the year recognized the potential and put them there.

Our talisman. This should have been obvious after the win in NZ in 2018 and yet there are still people doubting this? We won the freeking RWC for crying o ut loud!

Steph is not the heart of the team. He is replaceable, a replacement that would upgrade the team. Poor defender and a very poor ball carrier. No presence in the lineout. Ende.

AO

Du Toit is a star in all three issues you lied about above and has been so for the past three years.  When you keep on lying no comments is really worthwhile.  Why do you lie?  Because you ignore facts and because you  discover  what you call facts from nowhere and  you ignore the opinions of experts and believe your own BS.

So keep on being a total idiot - fool!!!!  LMAO.

By the way Du Toit is a  key member of the team and so is De Allende - Erasmus will always confirm it on the case of both players and Erasmus is the best coach we had the past 25 years - while your hero Meyer was  total disaster even found wanting as a club coach,          

Rassie is a C- coach. Only gameplan is Skop 'n Pop. As for Damian? He isn't even a centre. Another failed wing convert with no feel for the flow of any movement. Steph? Not talented enough to play 7, limited by his physique. Slow, ponderous, too reactive. In fact, those are some traits that the Dud duo share. Both cannot read play as well as they ought to, making many knee jerk reactions. They don't seem to learn from experience.

Also, do note that you admitted yourself that Rassie coached the 2011 WC side poorly. He had no gameplan and he was the idiot who cost us the semi. You really are a delight. Too reactive, ponderous, can't learn from experience... I am making some interesting connections here.

Either you lied to attack the wrong person. Made a foolish mistake because you don't know Bok rugby very well, or you are an "idiot speaker". Or all of the above! 

Must agree with Augie ... Pieter Steff is a good player but I would never chalk him up as a great.

Andre Venter, Juan Smith and Willem Alberts were power houses at 7.

Ruben Kruger will always be a favourite of mine. Powerful hands. Talking of powerful hands, who can argue against the influence Brussow had on a match? Meyer messed up big time selecting Frans Louw (an blindside flank) in Brussow place. One of many blunders.

Schalk Burger was a class act too although the open side wasn't suited to his upright style of play.

Luke Watson was a far better fetcher.

Now we see pretenders like Kolisi, Mohoje and Notshe ear marked for national duty. What a joke.

I bet we'll have a difficult time putting up a list of greats from now on. Well ... all except Dumb Fuck Dave . His grocery lists of useless chumps will litter this board for many more moons to come.   

PSDT has another 5 years of rugby in him, he surpassed Albert's a year ago and now he has exceeded Juan Smith's ability. And he can certainly read plays, one of his roles is to rush out of defence and make tackles behind the gain line, another throwaway comment that isn't substantiated. I think your dislike for him comes from the way he 'looks sloppy' when he's throwing himself at everything, which in my opinion is a pedantic view.

OK

Lets look at the lighter side a bit.  The two loosies a laugh about a lot has one thing in common:- they terrify flyhalfs.

*    In a game between Maties and Tukkies years ago Naas Botha was terrified  when he saw Rob Louw coming for him and a dropped the ball to the ground - it was behind the goal line and Louw scored the easiest try imaginable.

*    In the WC George Ford was so terrified by PS du Toit that every time he saw him coming he just throw the ball away and hope somebody catches it,

That shows something special t my mind.  

World Rugby introduced an Award  of World Player of the Year in 2001.  Sionce rthen onlt three players from SA won the award and those were -

2004   -  Schalk Burger

2007   -  Bryan Habana

2019   -  Pieter-Steph du Toit

The Award is decided upon by a work group of Experts - normally highly regarded and expert players with many years of test experience with a keen rugby knowledge what is making the  top player for any given year.   All the players  who have won the award must have ball sense and ball skills as a basis and must play a comprehensive game.

Looking at the three SA players who ever got the award had things in common - they were all three ball sense players with very good skill sets,  Lets look at the two flank forwards - Burger and Du Toit - both players had some commonalities - with in cases there were slight differences as well.  Both were good defenders and had ball skills to be part of backline attacks  as well.  Du Toit is a good line-out jumper - which Burger was not,   Irrespective where the ball went they both had the pace to get to it and keep apace,  were one of the earliest players at breakdowns and could cause problems for the opposition,   Both were hard workers throughout gamesm

I definitely rate Du Toit as our best loosie since re-admission and Burger as second back loosie, while he third best - with a skill set similar to Du Toit was Rob Louw,

The idea that a loosie must be part of the  Tight 5  gained credence in SA - it let to a string of loosies with limited ball skills and deficient in pace, who would never have made test sides in the top 6  rated teams in the world.    .           

Steph is a poor man's flank. A very low point for our loosie heritage. 

Then WR must be the poorest of the poor - they made Du Toit the Player of the Year for 2019 and no prejudiced lies of yours will change that,  LMAO 

World Player of the Year is a popularity award. There are many examples of players who were clearly not the best player in the world. Whoever won the World Cup would've had their teams most popular player made POTY. Steph is the media darling of South Africa. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Augie ... thing is though ... do the Goats have an issue at 7 ... much like the midfield stocks ... is Pieter Steff selected there because there is no better options available?

Beggars can't be choosers.

Who would be a better option at 7 than Pieter Steff Du Toit ... and please ... don't tell me Oupa Mohoje.

The Goats have similar issues at 10 ... at 12 and 13 ... and at 15.

Sometimes one's hand is forced.

Is this the case with Du Toit??

Yes, we have better. I'd have trialled Mostert at 7 with RG at 5. That already upgrades the team. Dan du Preez upgrades the team. A vastly more explosive ball carrier with skills and a much higher work rate, would be immense tandem with Thor and Louw at 6. That would have been a better option. Steph has abysmal figures as a carrier, so what do we gain? A lineout option? When, where? All this for his defence? It simply isn't worth it. 

Dan plays at 8. He's far more comfortable there. In fact I'd go as far as to say that he's the best 8th man the Goats have. He was unlucky to be ousted by the elderly "Thor" who as we know is only good for the first 20.

Louw is a blindside flank and an elderly one at that. He's no longer suited to top tier test rugby. 

Both of them should have been retired.

Why we hang on to the old is beyond me.

Mostert is a flair player ...not a powerful ball carrier. Playing him at 7 would be no better than playing Pieter Steff at 7.

We need a Juan type ... another Alberts or Andre Venter on the blindside.

Do we have anyone like that?

The Goats have a few quality 8th men banging on the door ... but from where I'm sitting there's not much options at 7.

The one thing we agree on is that the useless Kolisi has to go. He's never been a top tier player and his leadership is non existent. Useless.

Jaco Kriel should have been the 6 ages ago. He's a little long in the tooth now.

Ackermann always impressed me at 7 and with Dan at 8, all you'll need is a proper fetcher on the openside. 

That's my take anyway.

Sure Mostert is better  according to brainless AO.  Mostert was tried on the position by the Lions in 2018 on the request of Erasmus in three matches,  He failed badly and the Liosn moved him back to Lock.   Not a success at all - really a failure - so how could he be better than Du Toit Idiot Speaker?   Dream on clueless.  LMAO   .  

Then we have CC

Alberts who was no loosie at all is what we need?  Never in time at breakdowns - had no ball skills and was poor in defense due to pace deficiency and was not a good ball carrier at all - his carries was limited to about 2,2 meters per carry on average.  Clumsy and slow - total ly incapable of ball protection and recovery.   Heavens above - we do not need that from any player - as a loosie or in any other position.       

Steph du Toit has been our best 7 since our last truly great 7 Teuns Stoffberg - what a force of nature he was. Juan Smith is third after these two.

Organhuffer is a master troll! Hahahahahahahaha.

Beeno

I just love AO's contributions - they are so skewed and so distorted that it reminds me of the saying "by hom is kakpraat 'n siekte"   Is very sick in he top story when it comes to rugby!!!!!!!LOL 

jesus AO can wind you guys up.

Can't you see that he's just having some fun with you?

Most of you are the same people that fell for Clevermike's wind up on Frans Steyn.

I'm very serious about what I am saying, but I won't deny that I'm here for some mischief. 

OA

The Player of the Year is decided upon by who?  

1.7m per carry, less than 20% distribution, highest missed tackles under Rassie, 17th ranked flank in Super rugby 2018. You lose Lügnerin. I keep asking you to account for this but you keep dodging the question. How can this be and he still be the best player in the world? Just answer the question. 

We need to possibly also add 2 time RWC winner Kwagga Smith to the list. Thoughts?

But the best since readmission has to be Schalk Burger and Pieter Steph  du Toit.

followed by Juan Smith, Andre Venter, Rassie Erasmus, Brussouw (Unluckiest to not play more tests) and maybe Siya and Oupa Mahoje .

Rassie ……..waaaaaaahahaha…..groupies will be groupies. .

Joe Van Niekerk anyone?....... and prior to readmission Jan Ellis.

Yhis is a NS ythtrzt dtsrting  from noyhimg.  First of all prior to1996 rugby was not a prfessional game anmd much ,ess tsts were played annually -  there were tours by diferenct puntreoes anmd if 7 tests were played a year it was a lot.   Since 1996 world competiveness increased. and very few of the players played enough matches played  to justify their inclusion in the top loosie category.

ince 1995 to date - bar 4 months in 1997 - the Springboks played 10 man rufby with the result that lossies became an extension of the Tight 5 with near to sero conmstributions t attacking ugby.   S ome were too slow in defense and the lososing ea of SA ugby only f;ourished aftter 2018 and firther developed under Browne it is complettely new game for loosiesL-    

As to players in the professional era there are three caegories wher lloosies should be as folows:-

No 8  1    Vermeulen

No 7  1     Du Toir,

No 6   1      Burger 2     Smih

" Rassie ……..waaaaaaahahaha…..groupies will be groupies..."

"Rassie!"

Obviously  a joke.

Nope it wasn’t…ask the man who punted the idea:

Saffolk 

Hall Of Fame

26341 posts

Open era….Venter, Skinstad, Big Joe, Schalk, Vermeulen…those are the big talents at loosie. Juan Smith in the early part of his career probably deserved to be in the group. Dud Toit is a lock that plays a role that is scarcely that of a flank…rate him if you like, but don’t call him a flank.