Fact Checking Delande vs Esterhuizen

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Sep 12, 2023, 21:07

Esterhuizen displays that he has more power than Delande (who is strong), but Esterhuizen is a more skillful player that meets the core funcions of center play.

1. Crash Ball.
2. Draw and Pass
3. Long pass
4. Short pass
5. Kicking game
6. Defence (Tackles and positional play). 
7 Varied running lines to organize his outside players before passing
8. Offloads
9. Scoring Tries

Delande is limited to short pop passes, and runs more like a forward than a back.

Sep 12, 2023, 21:09

Delande is strong, one of the strongest inside centers in world rugby. However, he is a more limited player than Esterhuizen

Sep 12, 2023, 21:09


Sep 12, 2023, 21:27

Thanks Shark those highlights prove my point DA shows far more skill, with beating players with a step, using power, using kicks and the odd offload

With AE it’s all just power not once do you see him step, he does not attack space, he attacks contact. We see the odd offload

Much of DA’s highlights is in test rugby where it is far more difficult to impress

You have shot yourself in the foot

Game set and match provided by you

If I was an agent looking at those two clips I’d take DA without a flinch

Sep 12, 2023, 21:51

Esterhuizen is more powerful than Delande. He out-Delande's Delande.
The passing and running lines of Esterhuizen are better in these videos, albeit the videos do focus more on carries and finishing tries.

Delande is a combo winger & loose forward playing at center.

Sep 12, 2023, 21:53

Sep 12, 2023, 22:24

Oh what utter shit, the lines AE runs are no different to DA.

Their power is equal. Difference is we see DA beating defenders with a lovely step, we never see that from AE, we also see good use of the boot to chip ahead and score by DA, we don’t see that from AE

DA just looks more athletic and glides with ball in hand, AE is all about bashing his way through defenders

Your take on DA being a winger/ loosie playing centre is insulting

DA proves in those clips he is better than AE and that’s a fact

Sep 12, 2023, 22:29

The midfield puzzle that won't solve itself By Jan de Koning

‘They have more similarities than differences.’

In that single sentence, South African assistant coach Felix Jones synopsized the midfield puzzle they have.

Damian de Allende is the incumbent in the Springbok No.12 jersey.

André Esterhuizen has been knocking, ever so louder, on the door and seems ready to just barge through with his giant-sized frame.

De Allende had a barnstorming start to South Africa’s defence of their World Cup title in the 18-3 win over Scotland this past weekend – the most carries (14), carried for 70 metres, including 59 post-contact – also the most of any player. He also beat six defenders.

The powerfully dynamic inside centre has made the No.12 jersey his own since the retirement of centurion Jean de Villiers and is now three-quarters of the way to 100 caps.

He has featured in 74 Tests since his debut against Argentina at Loftus Versfeld in August 2014. The 31-year-old stands 1.89 metres tall and weighs in at 110 kilograms .

In contrast, Esterhuizen – who made his Springbok debut in that odd Test against Wales in Washington DC and has played just 14 times for his country – is true to his soubriquet of ‘Andre the Giant’.

His 1.93 metre, 118 kilogram frame brings true power and pace to the team’s midfield.

The big No.12, a staple for Premiership club Harlequins, showed his value by being named Premiership Players’ Player of the Season in 2021/2022.

The 29-year-old looks set to get his World Cup debut against Romania in a Round Two outing in Bordeaux on Sunday.

Jones admitted that midfield is a tough selection.

(Springbok backline coach Felix Jones chats to @king365ed about the selection poser they have at No.12…)

“If you look at Andre Esterhuizen – not only in the games for us [this year], but throughout the season with Harlequins [in the Premiership and Europe] – he is somebody we have been keeping an eye on for the last two or three years,” Jones told @rugby365com.

“We’ve been closely monitoring his performances and he’s really pushing [for a starting spot] and performing very well.”

Comparing the playing styles of De Allende and Esterhuizen, Jones said every player has their own way of playing the game – a style that’s effective for them.

“I would say there are far more similarities about them, [rather] than too many differences for both,” he added.

“Obviously [they are] two very large, physical men.

“Both have demonstrated and shown really deft touches, along with an ability to move the ball.

“[They also have] good decision-making capabilities, a good kicking game – be it a long kicking game or short kicking game.

“And then also both of them have shown good abilities to connect and adapt to different players left or right of themselves.

“I would say there’s more similarities among them than differences.”

The Bok backline guru, Jones, said despite not being fully happy with the performance against Scotland, he believes the Boks are going in the right direction.

“I think the introduction of [new] guys over the past 18 months – Manie [Libbok] in particular – has been has been brilliant in terms of what he’s brought and the way he sees the game,” Jones said in the build-up to the Romania encounter.

“And then obviously, I mean, it’s been incredibly exciting seeing the emergence of guys like Kurt-Lee [Arendse] and Canan [Moodie], who are competing so greatly with the more experienced campaigners in Cheslin [Kolbe] and Makazole [Mapimpi].

“I think there’s still plenty of work to be done – plenty cohesion still to improve on – but generally speaking, the confidence is good and they’re working well together.”

Sep 12, 2023, 22:57

VisKop...you'll never convince Saffex.

There's no point trying anymore.

As he said himself, he'll never change his mind.

To me, the thing that stands out is that AE is a total chaos merchant. Controlled chaos. And that opens space for players around him.

DDA will alway, and I mean always, do the exact same thing. He passed the ball 3 times in that Scotty game...opting to carry 15 times!!!

And when he gets it, opposition can simply set for a ruck and reorganise their defensive line while he's crashing.

When Andre gets it, it's far less predictable because he could change his option in a blink of an eye.

It's obvious why the latter creates more options for those around him and is a much bigger defensive task for opposition.

DDA simply doesn't have the rugby brain required to make a late decision based on new information. He doesn't have instinct.

Andre is a fast, strong, and instinctive rugby animal. DDA is a strong but predictable and slow player that offers only one thing.

I see it, you see it, everyone else bar a couple of people here see it.

I'm hoping Andre gets the nod for the Irish game. If not, we won't win.

Sep 12, 2023, 23:33

I asked Chat GPT who was the better player, and it said it did not have information since 2021. 

So then I used Microsoft Edge and Bing Chat (which uses Chap GPT in realtime) and it returned this...

Prompt" Who is a better inside center between Damien Delande and Andre Esterhuizen"

Searching for: Damien Delande vs Andre Esterhuizen

Generating answers for you…

I found a forum post on Ruckers Forum that compares the performance of Damian de Allende and Andre Esterhuizen in the 2019 Super Rugby season 1. According to the post, Damian played for 636 minutes, made 56 tackles, missed 8 tackles, and had a tackle success rate of 87.5%. Andre played for 584 minutes, made 45 tackles, missed 8 tackles, and had a tackle success rate of 85%. The post also provides additional statistics such as passes, carries, meters run, clean breaks, defenders beaten, offloads, tries, try assists, turnovers conceded, and more.

However, it is difficult to determine who is a better inside center based on these statistics alone. There are many other factors to consider such as playing style, team dynamics, and individual strengths and weaknesses. It would be best to watch them play and form your own opinion.

Learn more:

1. ruckersforum.com

2. iol.co.za

3. youtube.com

Sep 13, 2023, 00:10

Plum you are speaking kak, AE is certainly not creating more for those around him - where is the evidence of that at test level?

It’s absolutely bullshit that opposition sides can set for a ruck and reorganise their defensive line while he is crashing - how can they do that when he is forcing them on the back foot committing defenders in the process

What exactly has AE done differently at test level in fact even at club level. His highlights show that all he does is crash into defenders more so than DA does

Not once do you see him attacking space as you do DA with his good stepping

Reality is AE and DA do exactly the same thing and after watching those two clips one can see which player is the better athlete and why he has won 74 caps now

I actually thought AE’s highlights package would be more impressive than it is - it left me a little disappointed. AE is very one dimensional and it works as he is so big - it’s hard stopping 118kg’s

DA certainly shows a better set of skills, with the step and chip kicks that worked. He at least at times when the opportunity presents itself, looks to attack space

These video clips have reaffirmed my faith in DA as AE has been in good form of late. I get why Rassie prefers DA. Based on those clips you have to select the more skilful player that has just as much power

Sep 13, 2023, 00:31

Here's what ChatGPT says about a chaotic 12 versus a more predictable player in the same position...

A more chaotic inside centre, in the context of rugby, can create more opportunities for his backline compared to a predictable 12 by introducing unpredictability and variation into the attack. Here's how:

1. **Defensive Confusion:** Chaotic play from the inside centre can confuse the opposing defense. When a player doesn't follow traditional patterns, defenders may struggle to anticipate their movements, leading to defensive disorganization.

2. **Drawing Defenders:** A chaotic inside centre can draw defenders towards them through unconventional running lines or offloads. This can create space and opportunities for their teammates in the backline as defenders commit to stopping the unpredictable runner.

3. **Offloading:** Chaotic play often involves offloads in unconventional situations. By keeping the ball alive with quick passes or unexpected offloads, the inside centre can catch defenders off guard, allowing his backline to exploit gaps.

4. **Multiple Options:** Predictable play tends to have a limited set of options, making it easier for the defense to read and react. Chaotic play introduces multiple options and variables, making it challenging for the defense to predict the next move.

5. **Creativity:** A chaotic inside centre is more likely to try creative plays like chips, grubber kicks, or unexpected switches. These creative actions can catch the defense off balance and create opportunities for the backline.

6. **Improvisation:** Predictable players stick to rehearsed strategies, while chaotic players can improvise on the spot. This adaptability allows them to exploit defensive weaknesses as they arise.

However, it's essential to strike a balance. While chaos can be beneficial, it should be controlled chaos. An overly chaotic player may make too many errors or put their team under unnecessary pressure. Successful chaotic play requires good decision-making and communication with teammates to ensure everyone is on the same page and can react to unexpected situations.

Sep 13, 2023, 05:26

Haha, Chat GPT used my post for its analysis. I'll have to send it a consultation bill.

Sep 13, 2023, 06:39

AI knows your soul, Pakie.

Sep 13, 2023, 09:36


If you type this into Google -  "damien delande vs esterhuizen"

You are ranked top of Google as well. :D

Sep 13, 2023, 09:48

Fame that brings no money is no fame at all :'(

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