Biggest B ever
Biggest B ever
A, minus the obvious negative extremes.
Pakie you fucking idiot
C
If you gave Kolisi, Kwagga, Wiese, or any number of relatively mobile Bok loose forwards free rein to hang out in the backline and hit the opposition backs, they'd all perform relatively similarly.
Kwagga would steal more ball during/after the hit, Kolisi would make more tackles and Wiese would probably hit far harder than anyone else.
PSDT had a very good final. I felt some of his hits shifted, or halted AB momentum. I stated that on here previously on about 2 or 3 occasions.
One could easily say that he did rise to the occasion, because there is evidence for such. The weight you place on said evidence is filtered through one's bias. Rooi and Fat Lip feel he had a Godly final while Moz probably feels PSDT began to approach some of the hype he gets on here.
See, pretty easy to answer.
Watch game, see evidence, call it how YOU see it. The key is to SEE it and then CALL it, so that people can discuss your take on the specific evidence.
But Fat Lip...show us a single occasion in the last 5 years where DDA rose to the occasion. Because I can show you a plethora of occasions where he screwed up momentum by being a brian dead donkey.
Any time you are ready, we can discuss the evidence.
"Hang on, what's that on the horizon? It's...it's...a massive appeal to authority riding on the back of an ad hominem...and it's headed right for this thread!!! It's holding a flag that says I Make Clothes For The Emperor".
Bwhahahahah!!!
It’s A or B you fucking idiot
Give us your A it’s written all over you
Can we please leave the comments until everyone has voted?
For now it's just an A or B response required.
B
B
Keep voting, I'll update again tomorrow.
Defiiitely B = Mozart hates Du Toit from 2014 when we said Matfield is a not up to standard anymore and they should look at Du toit as a lock. He started doing injury repoorts om Du Toit in 2015 hope that eh would be ouit of rugby for the year. Heuyneke Meyer thads no idea what he was doing. - but when another squad playr could not play - Alberts Meyr in his idiocy decided to use D u T ot at 97 - where he played a few rinmes in the 2012 Under 20 WC - but never ever afterwards. He did not do well and Mozart went bananas Since them his malicious attacks on Du Toit kept inceasing . Du Toit live entire free in his head.
.
B
A…could you include Dud Allende in the question as well. Thanks. Oh and please add ‘can’t break tackles and gain hard yards’ in the case of Dud Toit.
Looks like B is running away with it shock, shock
People are entitled to their opinions…..but I would like to know what Dud does, in which specific aspect of rugby other than quantity of tackles, he is better than ordinary.
His physicality is a massive asset on the charge in traffic, making hits, in the scrums, mauls, clean outs, maul defences, he is a good line out option.
He is a great allround player - the best blindside in the game by a country mile
B - It can only be that - he is a great BOK (A real pain in the ARSE FOR THE AB'S).
B
"Give us your A it’s written all over you"
What Fat Lip says to under aged boys down the bus stop.
No wonder they look at you funny.
Deus is so right about the casuals on this board.
Note that name dropping, as Fat Lip does week in and week out, doesn't mean you're not a casual. Just means you follow rugby but understand very little of what you see.
For those of you voting B, here is some material I posted on another string which might make you think…but only if you are willing to think. If you want to vote your emotions, just ignore it:
Dud Toit’s stats
5 runs 0 tackles beaten against NZ
8 runs 2 defenders beaten against England
7 runs 0 tackles beaten against France
6 runs 0 tackles beaten against Ireland.
7 runs 0 tackles beaten against Scotland.
That’s 5 matches, in 4 of which he never beat a tackle….that’s 33 times he had the ball and 31 times he was brought down by the first tackler. Great at taking a ball up in traffic?
And a great tackler every game?
Scotland 7 tackles made/3 missed
Ireland 13 made/1 missed
France 9 tackles made/5 missed
England 9 tackles made/0 missed
New Zealand 28 made/3 missed.
So we see his high tackle rate was only in the final. In the aggregate he was 66 tackles made/ 12 missed. That’s a 85% tackle success rate….ordinary.
But here’s the killer 33 runs …..2 tackles beaten. The great runners success rate is far lower than the success of the oppo runners tackling him. If he had 78 runs, equal to his number of tackle attempts….he is projected to beat 5 tackles. But when he was the tackler 78 times he missed 12 tackles.
So Dud played a role in a specific plan in both WC finals. But his running and tackling for WC2023 as a whole was mediocre at best…..and certainly oppo runners got more out of him than he got out of them.
Case closed…now you are schooled, apologies aren’t necessary
Yeah for the readers on here Moz does not know the difference between a 6 and a 7
In his world blindsides run around beating defenders like centres or wings do. Clearly they don’t take the ball up in traffic where practically no defenders are beaten. But best of all he thinks a 2m tall player should be effecting turnovers but can’t explain why we never see Eben, Mostert, Lood or RG effecting turnovers
A, minus the hyperbolicfications
Buttplug your attempts at humour are fucking pathetic
Just stick to calling for Roos at 12 you profoundly stupid, racist pig
Blob I never took you for a fucking idiot
Has it occurred to you Einstein that all those other players are locks.
And we all know PSDT is a lock playing flank. Ah so if you are a lock you don’t have to effect turnovers then huh. Is that because locks never find themselves in broken play in a position to effect turnovers.
Last I checked, the only time a lock is tied in, is when he is in an actual scrum
Moz your rugby ignorance shines bright - no wonder you rate Mostert but don’t rate DA, PSDT, Lood, Kitshoff etc - it all makes sense now
You are yet to grasp the basics of the game - the actual roles of players
That’s your argument Dave, Dud is too tall to fetch…these days they all try to fetch, but a flank has many more opportunities than a lock. Dud just bottles out every time.
How does a blindside flank have more opportunities than a lock to effect turnovers?
Yes I’m saying height gets in the way of players effecting turnovers and that’s why you hardly see a lock effecting one. It’s simply a struggle to get down there and effectively execute a turnover
" Generally speaking, the flankers are the fastest forwards in the team. They are tasked with protecting the ball when their teammates are tackled and ensuring that the opposition do not gain possession. On top of this, they also provide support in attacking play and are expected to receive passes and engage in rucks. The blindside flanker is responsible for clearing out rucks. Primarily a defensive player on the blindside (hence the name), the blindside flanker aims to shut down the opposition’s scrum half or number eight.
Generally speaking, blindside flankers are physical players who relish competition and confrontation. Overall, the job of a blindside flanker is to ensure that the opposition do not get over the gain line. However, in the modern game, blindside flankers are also expected to carry the ball and attempt to break defensive lines. As large and physical players, they can be great for punching holes in defences and drawing attention to create gaps for others. " - Rugbypass Blinside Flanker - Position Guide
As I have openly said before on here, I admittedly do not know as much about rugby as some of you guys on here do, but I can have my own assessment of a player purely judging by what I see from watching the games, but I don't have as much of the analytical skills of the game that some of you have on here.
Having said that, it's a B from me
B without hesitation
Dave
A geentle reminder - Mozart was the greatest supporter on site of Alberts - too/ slow to be effective and really a miserable defender who never made a turnover at breakdown and was never a factor for carrying balls - easily broughtt down in tackles because of balance problems. But he hates Du Toit now for 11 years ever since the commnts made when Meyer convinced Matfield to return from retirement - a move that many of us said was BS and mentioned Du Toit at that stage playing only at lock as an alternative. It turned out that Matfield was a flop after his returrn from retirement and in fact fucked up royally in the match he played against Japan and in the semi-final after he came on from the bench. Mozart tried to cover up the failures of Matfield by showing that Matfield was good in the brnze final when the Spring boks played against the Argentina "B" team, but even in that case he was not the best player on the field that day. .
When in 2018 Erasmus reaize there is a problem at 7 - he asked the Stormers and lions to use Du Toit and Mostert as no 7 and they complied. The Lions used Mostert for three matches in that position and Erasmus found he was a flop and he returned to play at lock. Du Toit was a success and his role in the 2019 RC and WC series resulted in him being the Player of the Year in 2019. Mozart could not accept it and the BS flows like lava from his hate-filled mind.
.
So as at 11h00 today it's 10 posters who think PSdT is more deserving of respect than ridicule, 3 posters who think he's more deserving of ridicule than respect and one poster who was too stupid to cast a vote successfully (or else too gutless to vote in case he upset his Master).
Thanks to everyone who voted. I'm very glad I'm among the majority who appreciate a great Springbok who played such a big part in us winning two RWCs.
PSDT is a bloody legend - built for lock but skilful enough to adapt and become the best blindside in the game and one of if not the best blindside SA has ever produced
All the Boks are deserving of respect.
Even DDA the donkey boy. It's a stressful existence with pain awaiting you every weekend. And you give yourself pain during the week to make the weekend's pain less painful.
The lows last too long and the highs not long enough.
So I take issue with the term ridicule.
No logical person would disrespect most of what any pro sportsman does most of the time because it's difficult and requires self discipline that very few are graced with.
Not believing that a player is a good as people say he is, and saying why you think so, is not ridicule. It's part and parcel of being a sports fan.
So this stupid little poll is both devious and transparent. Trying to pull at heartstrings and moralise fan's opinions when they are more than entitled to having them.
Exactly the type of pathetic shit one expects from RooiNuts. Literally every word the tit types on this site is aimed at demeaning someone or ridiculing them.
A pathetic person by all counts.
Wehe, ButtPlug felt his little heartstrings being pulled!
Spin it however you want, tearful little gurly-boy, but calling a great Springbok like Pieter Steph "Dud Toit" is ridiculing him and it's disrespectful . . . especially coming from a weak-arsed little wimp like your beloved Massster . . . and therefore by association, you.
Come on then you grovelling brown-nosed little suck-up, let's hear again how much "we hatess the Rooinek and we loves the Preciousss"
LMAO!
As I said before people are entitled to their own views. But as my post above demonstrates Dud is not a great runner…..his tackling in all the matches leading up to the final was at 81% and nothing like the quantity he produced in the final. He literally can’t fetch. For some reason he is rarely used at the back of the lineout….Vermeulen is used more. He is no more effective in the rucks than our other forwards.
What is wrong with PSDT’s running Moz?
Explain
What part of a blindside not fetching are you unable to comprehend?
Your takes are a load of utter shit but feel free to prove me wrong
Bar the final Steph had a fairly average World Cup, well below his standards. I believe that's a demonstrable fact, starting by looking at his stats. His tackling was abysmal against Scotland and France, missing 8 out of 24 tackles in those two games. SA supporters and media have a tendency to forget everything that came before a good performance by a favourite player. Have a great final and they'll suddenly recall you having had a great tournament, even if you actually hadn't.
I don't mind Steph, he looks a fine young man and he's a decent player with his share of stellar moments, but I believe him to be overhyped, limited and erratic in terms of how consistently he brings the actual goods.
Clueless
Unbelievable! The most denigrated, criticised and underrated player and his haters have the nerve to call him "overhyped"!
It beggars belief!
Anyway, I'll go by what his team mates have to say about him rather than the views of a couch potato basing everything on stats.
At the end of the day we won two RWCs that we probably wouldn't have won without Pieter Steph du Toit.
All time Springbok legend in my book.
You can’t change rugby ignorance - it’s engrained
PSDT tackling was abysmal - how insulting as is that he was below par in the WC bar the final
Utter rubbish
Well, he performed in the 2 RWC finals...when it counted...and the first match the Bokke won in NZ in many years...you know, he was there for the really big moments in Bok Rugby in the last 6 years...as has Eben, Duane and a few others...infighting over BS is typical Saffa mentality thing the rest of the world don't really understand it...me neither TBH...and this is a prime example.
(Sic) seriously, grow up. You sound like a teenage girl talking about haters. Pakie’s post 100% sums up my point of view. In a world of entitled people Du Toit comes across as a solid young man and I was a huge fan of Spiere, the Ox of the 60s.
But his memorable moments come down to 2 World Cup finals and one aspect of the game….tackling. Not enough to be a legend. If his hair was dark and his name was Gous, we wouldn’t be having the discussion. He is a media darling.
And while you are about it, why don’t you admit without Pollard we would never have won the last WC.
As for being a couch potato, what sports do you actively play, what’s your height and what’s your weight. Let’s see if you have enough guts to back up your couch potato slur.
Nobody gives a flying toss what you think, Moffie.
Weight and height porker…you admitted your addiction problem…admit your weight issue. By the way I’m invested in Lilly who have a spectacularly successful fat reducing drug, Zepbound. There might be hope for you yet.
Saying he only contributed defensively is ignorance of the highest order
He is just as good as Eben with ball in hand - no better or worse
Not to mention all the other aspects of the game that require players to impose themselves physically - mauls, rucks, scrums, maul defence, clean outs etc - where the big boys operate. PSDT is our next best big boy after Eben and that’s a fact
Eben
Scotland 2 runs/0 defenders beaten
Ireland 4 runs/0 defenders beaten
France 6 runs/1 defender beaten
England 2 runs/0 defenders beaten
New Zealand 4 runs/1 defender beaten
….so in 18 runs, Eben did what Dud did in 33 runs. Almost twice as productive, but still low. Locks don’t make great runners..a more blocky type can break tackles and fetch. You are making my argument for me.
" a hard and inspirational player who is more deserving of respect than ridicule. " - That is why I voted B….that he is a media darling just like Schalk and Jean de Villiers ( all three Blonde : ) and sometimes erratic, maybe not the best runner and breaker of Tackles we have is correct, but the man,s unwillingness to give in thru all the bad injuries and on field, shows true character….Mostert is just a more Durable Version….the Passion and Dedication for the Boks , oozes out of these 2 players.
Moz are you seriously this rugby ignorant?
How on earth can beating one or two more defenders be defined as twice as productive when the measure of a lock or blindside is their taking contact, breaching the advantage line and setting up the next phase
PSDT is a lock playing flank and his role in general play is no different to Eben’s
What is your ignorant fixation on defenders beaten by a lock or blindside - fuck me we are not talking about centres or wings here
These big guys gain a metre at best in contact with the odd open field run as a bonus
No Mpower - Mostert is unable to impose himself physically never has never will. He lacks grunt - so he will run around making process tackles all day you will never see dominant tackles made by him as he simply can’t
Let’s look at a Roos like player…Savea
France 12 runs/4 defenders beaten
Ireland 15 runs/4 defenders beaten
Argentina 16 runs/ 8 defenders beaten
Springboks 22 runs/4 defenders beaten.
So in aggregate Savea made 65 runs and beat 20 defenders. ..twice the number of runs, but beat 10 times the defenders that Dud Toit beat.
Using a lock as your main runner simply means you have a reset game….not a running game. The difference would be even more stark if we examined what happened to the ball after the defender was beaten.
Roos is much more like the runner we need. Dud needs to be redeployed to lock where he can still tackle as Mostert showed, but isn’t required to do things he can’t do,
Fuck me why are you comparing a lock / blindside to a 8 or 6?
Yes your 8 and 6 should be beating defenders like Ardie does and as does Roos, Emmanuel Tsituka, Hanekom and Francke Horn
Different type of players with different roles
The role of a lock and a blindside like PSDT is to run in traffic setting up phases
The role of an openside and 8 is to play it wider - to attack space - Kwagga, Kolisi, Hooper, Savea, Read, Roos, Aldritt, vd Vlier, Doris, Ben Earl etc
Wehe . . . good luck trying to teach Moffie anything Saffex.
Moffie's only exposure to rugby was he once held hands with the guy who cut the half-time oranges.
It’s like saying Dale Steyn should have scored more runs than he did at test level
Gonzalez playing for the injured Matera
Vs Wales …3 runs/2 defenders beaten
Vs NZ …5 runs/0 defenders beaten
Vs England (they played Matera)…11 runs/5 defenders beaten
So in aggregate in matches against top tier opponents 19 runs/7 defenders beaten. For 33 runs that would have been 12 defenders beaten, 6 times the paltry 2 Dud Toit managed.
And eighth men and blindsiders are not that different in their running roles. You could put Savea on the blindside and with exactly the same opportunities he would be far more effective than the Dud…..who is simply too tall to be an effective ball carrier in space or in tight spaces.
Matera plays both 8th man and blindsider.
A runner who can beat a defender every 15 times he gets the ball, who at best retains possession is of little value. And his stats show he is one of the least likely blindsiders to break a tackle.
And a guy like Matera is a brilliant fetcher, he performs multiple roles not just process tackling.
So, how many times has Pablo Matera won the RWC? How many times was he named Player of the RWC Tournament? How many times was he named Player of the RWC final?
What's that? None? Zero?
Well then Moffie, go wipe that egg off your stupid fat face before it gets hard . . . because those are actual statistics that mean something . . . rather than the plaintive, biased and downright stupid witterings of a complete rugby noob who doesn't understand the game of rugby and seeks refuge in stats (which he doesn't know how to apply) every time his laughable ignorance is exposed.
Off you go then Moffie . . . that egg will be much harder to remove when iy hardens . . . as you well know!
LMAO!
Actually if you don’t play in the RWC final, you can’t be Player of the Rugby WC final. Can you….hahahaha….follow that? But feel free, explain what Dud does other than tackling that could be regarded as at all exceptional. No more of childish barbs…make your case.
And what about those height/weight stats…prove you aren’t a couch potato.
Matera is clearly a Roos type of player certainly not a PSDT type - geez Moz
Different countries employ different tactics - if Argentina play Matera at blindside then he will play wider than PSDT does
The Boks employ a different strategy, Rassie likes to play a big lock type of player at blindside and he is going to play it far narrower than Matera
During the Lions series they tried Mostert at 7 and he completely failed and was replaced with Kwagga - a deviation from the usual Bok strategy
Kwagga played his usual game at 7, he was not expected to perform the PSDT role
Your rugby education continues
"Your rugby education continues"
But that’s my point Dave……I’d rather have a Roos/Matera type player. I see no value in choosing an otherwise non performing player in the process tackling role and giving up breaking tackles, offloading, turning over balls on the deck and having enough pace to make open field tackles. If Dud wasn’t there all that would happen is Mostert’s tackle count would be even higher.
I see Jabba the couch potato Hutt keeps chiming in….so tell me if I’m close to your stats, I’m guessing 5’9” /235lbs.
You're forgetting Moffie, I've seen pictures of you.
You have absolutely no idea what I look like but I know that you have the face of Angela Merkel atop thin little shoulders that spread out to a soft paunch which is held up by skinny little stick-insect legs.
And that's being kind!
LMAO!
So let’s see your image Jabba.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha!
Age 57? What was that . . . like 20 years ago? Maybe that's why you look like a young Angela Merkel in that photo.
It is you in that pic and not Angela, right? I never can tell you apart.
LMAO!
Nope Rassie has it spot on with a brute at 7 it’s why we keep winning trophies
It’s the job of our 7 to carry in traffic not to beat defenders, to add physical grunt to the scrums, mauls, rucks, maul defending, clean outs and dominant tackles - PSDT is the best in the business at that
There is no balance in having a Roos at 7 and 8
Pure grunt at 7 like PSDT, JL du Preez, Ben Jason Dixon, Elrigh Louw, Liebenberg, Kirsten, Vincent Tsituka, Reinhardt Ludwig, Gumede and Ruan Venter.
The ball players at 8 with a bit of grunt like Roos, Wiese, Dan du Preez, Emmanuel Tsituka, Hanekom, Dayamani , Augustus, Francke Horn, Marcel Coetzee and Jaco Coetzee
I’m inclined to think Wiese is better suited to 7 as he is not really a ball player more just a grunt player
No response, so I’ll remove my image.
What the blue blazes is the point of carrying in traffic and making no progress….that’s just another chance to lose the ball. That’s why we can’t convert good ball into tries….our highest try scorer at the WC was Reinach at 11th.
"No response, so I’ll remove my image."
It's a fair enough question . . . I think.
For those who missed it, here is the photo of himself that Moffie put up and then quickly removed again:
What’s on the net is on the net….the only thing that’s not known is that Mozart is that person, which is part of our pact posting on here. A pact you broke by posting a private picture of me and sneaking onto my daughters’ Facebook accounts.
Admit it's a remarkable likeness!
LMAO!
Um it’s to set up phases it’s to apply physical pressure it’s to win games which is what we do
We scored more tries than our opponents in the WC other than in the final but let’s face it the NZ try was never a try
Our strategy wins us cups it’s all we ask for as supporters
". . . sneaking onto my daughters’ Facebook accounts."
Saffex has met me Moffie. Why don't you ask him if I'm a short stumpy fattie?
We played the same number of games as NZ. They scored 49 tries we scored 27. France and Ireland who played 2 less games than us scored 3 more tries. We have no structured offense, just a turnover ball offense….because the ball dies with our inside center and our blindside flank.
"We played the same number of games as NZ. They scored 49 tries we scored 27. France and Ireland who played 2 less games than us scored 3 more tries. We have no structured offense, just a turnover ball offense….because the ball dies with our inside center and our blindside flank."
And we won the last two RWCs playing our brand of rugby.
Ssschplottt!
Ask him if I look like Angela Merkel.
Okay, so we had the greatest rugby coach of all time and the best blindside flanker in living memory . . . which obviously helped . . . but it was still playing the traditional brand of Bok rugby.
So you go ahead and count the tries or the line breaks . . . we'll count the RWC trophies!
LMAO!
"Ask him if I look like Angela Merkel."
Doesn’t sound like Dave, now if you said he swore uncontrollably for hours I might believe you.
Well Moz one certainty is Rooi is not short and fat and you were certainly not thin and scrawny
I really enjoyed meeting up with Rooi and his wife - they were lovely as was meeting you
As for tries scored I’m taking about when we played the likes of Scotland, Ireland, France, England and NZ in the WC
I’m not interested in overall tries scored given some of the shit sides some of the sides faced in the pools
I love how Saffex has been trying to continue the rugby chat throughout all of this 
Well played Dave….I always knew there was a bit of the diplomat about you.
I'm in tears.
Indeed. It's only RooiNuts that doesn't care about talking rugby at all.
Literally, everything he posts is aimed at trying to undermine someone.
Even Denise will actually post about sport, with the sole intention of talking about sport.
Rooi is just a sour, unlikeable, damaged knobhead who got bitchslapped one too many times and has been tuned into someone incapable of just being normal for a day.
Mozart at one stage claimed he is 3 years yonger than I am - so he is 79 years of age at present and unlike me he suffers from dementia problems caused by aging.
Still wondr where all his user name changes come from. It is purely a stunt of no importance to mislead people aware of his BS beliefs coming out all over the site. .
Meton feels that Michael is the most confused human on your planet.
Upon consent of three earthlings we would happily abduct him and attempt to unclutter his upstairs.
PS he may not bring his Cliques Machine along.
Schweinhund you are the only poster on this site who is totally without humor…a dull, pompous, stupid old fool .
Ja sure uncle Mike, and the one you love on here is called Clitoris now??
Rooinek
Hall Of Fame
14653 posts
A simple poll requiring a simple "A" or "B" response.
Even if you don't agree 100% with the A or B options, I refuse to believe you don't lean slightly toward one or the other so it's not absolute agreement, it's which one you lean towards. Here goes:
A: Pieter-Steph du Toit is a very average Springbok who can't beat tackles, only makes "process" tackles, can't fetch, can't compete in lineouts and is more deserving of ridicule than respect.
or
B: Pieter-Steph du Toit is a great Springbok who always rises to the big occasions, a deserving recipient of the Player of the 2019 RWC tournament award, a deserving recipient of the Player of the final in the 2023 RWC final, a hard and inspirational player who is more deserving of respect than ridicule.
Again, you don't have to agree entirely with either assessment. If you're somewhere in the middle then it's the option you lean towards slightly more than the other.
Please respond. I'll collate the results right here in the OP. I have already updated the two well known responses.
mozart: A
Rooinek: B
Saffex: B
Plum: Spoiled Ballot
Blobbok: A
Kingcorn:
DbDraad: B
Sharkbok:
clevermike: B
Denny: B
Devil's Advocate: B
Mpower: B
Pakie: A
Chippo:
AJH:
Beeno1:
Flashdakota:
becs: B
Black&Red: B
moolaa: B
If I've forgotten you or or if you're only an occasional poster or a lurker then feel free to add your vote.
If non-Springbok supporters like becs, Stavanger1, moolaa, Black&Red or anyone else I've forgotten would like to have their say then please feel free to add your vote, your opinions are just as valid if not more so because they're unbiased.