The first player I would drop

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Feb 08, 2021, 15:53

Would be de Kock for his total disregard for the good of the team.

We have a test within grasp and he walks in and flashes as the first ball he receives wide outside off

The guy needs to learn that his team comes before his stupidity

Super talented but super stupid

Feb 08, 2021, 16:52

‘What kind of shot was that’.....’unacceptable’....’I don’t know what he was thinking’...this little chap has far too much on his shoulders. Capable of ripping an attack apart when it doesn’t matter.....but technically flawed, so incapable of putting together a conservative innings when it’s needed.

The commentators wanted him to play defensively but history shows he always gets out doing that. He has to try to dominate.....unfortunately the new ball was moving....and with his big wind up and  high hands away from the body, that’s the kiss of death.

Feb 08, 2021, 16:54

strangely... i agree.

hee had no regard for the teams well being.

put himself first...

and as a captain, it makes it 10 times worse.


he should never have taken the captaincy. he's too stupid to captain a test team.

Feb 08, 2021, 16:56

Nonsense....he panicked....it wasn’t an egotistical act, it was the act of a player shaking in his boots.

Feb 08, 2021, 17:40

How the hell di you know that?     Wild assumption as per normal.


Feb 08, 2021, 17:40

How the hell di you know that?     Wild assumption as per normal.


Feb 08, 2021, 19:57

Technically flawed my arse, nothing wrong with his technique at all.

Plays away from his body when he is out of form and that’s it - hardly a technical flaw

The only flaw is his head and he arrogantly thinks his position in the team is a given.

Drop him I say, so that he reflects on the fact that playing for your country is an honour and privilege and that you play according to the needs of the team. Be attacking but play the ball on its merit and certainly not the first ball you face

The guy is an idiot and how he was appointed test captain is beyond me

Speaks volumes for Boucher as the coach

Feb 08, 2021, 22:11

Your arse is ‘technically flawed’.....try a diaper.  Ock is a number 7 bat who comes off when the pitch is rolled McAdam. High hands, poor defence, flinging the bat at the ball like he did today. Vastly overrated by so many on this Board. Not me. Stick  with Moz.

Feb 08, 2021, 22:51

Bad management too.

They should just give him a licence and send him in to face the first ball.

Perhaps get the team off to a flyer. 

Having him in the mid-order just makes things worse because he is too unstable to close out sessions or bat for hours. The opposition are always in with a chance when he's batting and that doesn't make for a comfortable dressing room. 

Feb 08, 2021, 22:57

Rated highly the world over

Reality 32 - Moz 12

There is a pattern here Moz

Same equation applies to de Allende, PSDT etc etc etc etc etc

Feb 09, 2021, 09:24

Dave

What else do you expect from Mozart - hew ahd a fot in 2013 when De Kock replaced  SAmith in the ODI team in 2013   and ahs been attacking De Kock all out since then.    First he could not face real fast bowling - then it was spin bowling - then another ten myths followed,.

De Kock has one difficulty  at not protecting his wicket and hit out at balls he should no o so.   There is zero batting deficiencies as is now amongst Mozart's multiple discoveries,.   Unlike the totally defective Elgar he goes out attacking the ball - while Elgar has a major technique problem  - which cause the loss of his wicket,   Huge difference,  

Feb 09, 2021, 12:04

Boucher is on record for saying Quinton has lost his confidence, as a matter of fact he said so prior to the start of the 2nd test. From the sound of things the shot he played is typical of a player who has lost all confidence and appetite for the game. In hindsight he should never have accepted the captaincy, he should have stuck to refusing the opportunity. In hindsight...

Feb 09, 2021, 14:00

If may not be the case of lost confidence in himself  - but even worse lost confidence in the team he is playing for.    I do think that the captaincy issue was one of the things that effected him detrimentally and caused the loss of confidence.

I stay with the fact that a constructive team building exercise  is needed,    Clean out the players that is a key to the demise of the Proteas in world cricket and  bring in new players as a base for future development,  

I would drop all of Elgar, Faf and Van der Linde to start with.    A basic team to start with is as follows:-

Jannean Malan, Markram, Van Tonder. Bavuma,  De Kock, Verreinve. Mulder. Maharaj, Rabada, Nortje and  Ngidi

I the above does not work there are a string of other players that can be brought in - players like -

*    batsmen  -   Roelofsen, Rickelton, Marques Ackerman, Bird

  All-rounders -  De Swardt, M Potgieter, Phehlukwayo

*     Sipamla. Linde, Shamsi.   

I would start off with picking NO over 30-year old players in the squad - especially players who have never played  international cricket or have failed in the few matches they did play.

There is now for SA a break in international cricket and before the start of the IPL the abover squad should be called upon to play a number o matches against combined teams comprising other players.        

Feb 09, 2021, 17:04

Mike

Your inclusion of Verreinve, Tickelton and Bord are questionable.

Feb 09, 2021, 17:41

Agree, he should never have given in on being the test captain as it has without question resulted in his performance in this series.

He is a talented batsman but not a Captain.

A Captain must be a quality player with the addition of being able to read a game, set a field for the bowler, inspire the players and above all lead from the front.

Similar to the English captain.

But to call for his dismissal from the team is out of the question.

The big question is who in a position to meet all those requirements and make a success with the players in the present squad.

Sadly, nobody.

Feb 09, 2021, 18:33

He needs to be dropped so that he learns that his position in the side is not to be taken for granted and he needs to learn to play for his team and not himself.

There is a time to go out and smash and a time to knuckle down and protect your wicket

de Kock seems to think he is beyond playing according to the situation or teams needs

He needs a fucking wake up call - a kick up the arse. Dropping him would do just that

Feb 09, 2021, 22:25

Nonsense Ock  tried defence after his flying start in the first innings and promptly went out. People often assume erratic players in many sports are not trying.

Rory hits the ball a mile, but that same elastic swing makes it hard to modulate his wedges. Frans kicks the ball a mile, but he isn’t the most accurate. 


Technique very often determines temperament. Ock has poor technique and so he can’t play a defensive innings against a moving ball. Dropping him will just lower his confidence further. His keeping has improved, play him at 7 and take the pressure off.


I have said this from the beginning of his career, and it looks even more true today.

Feb 10, 2021, 00:14

Moz telling us de Kock has a poor technique tells me you know nothing about batting technique

Feb 10, 2021, 05:55

Boucher moaned about the senior batsmen who failed in Pakistan and essentially repeating what happened in the past two years?   The list are the same - look no further than Du Plessism Elgar and  Van der Dussen - with De Kock being an addition in Pakistan.

Fact  is that the declining performances are due to slowing down if reflections associated with  aging,    It is indeed not surprising that the fielding of the first three players mentioned also showed the same tendencies.    

So what is to be done to the players - whose SL performances caused a rise in their average  batsmen stats, but is on the decline again.     In the case of  the three players  the present situation is that  -

*    Du Plessis - after the 199 not out against Japan,  went  up above the 38 average he was to over 41 average - but is now declining and he is now at 40.02;

*     The same tendency happened to Elgar - but he is now at 39,81; and

*      Van der Dussen remained rather static at an average of 34.64/     

Although the first class averages of the three  are more or less in the same region - with Van der Dussen the highest and Du Plessis the lowest - their are a number of provincial younger players with equivalent of n some cases - like Van Tonder with 49,86 way above Van der Dussen and up to ten points higher than the other two.

De Kock obviously need some shock treatment as well - but I would send the other three packing to start with,   They are not earning their salaries anyway.         

Feb 10, 2021, 21:46

Dave telling us de Ock failed because he didn’t care tells us you know nothing about sport.

Feb 10, 2021, 22:18

I’m saying he is too stupid to work out that sometimes it’s about playing for the side and not for himself

I know from watching him for years now that he is most certainly not technically flawed

If he was he would not have averaged 40 in test matches batting at 6 and 7 with the tail and hitting 21, 50’s and 5 centuries

Nor would he average 45 opening the batting in ODI’s if he was technically flawed

Im sure he cares he just needs to fucking wake up and play the situation

Feb 11, 2021, 09:24

Mozart

We all recognize that De Kock fouled up in the Pakistan series and accept that remedial action is necessary,   But what about the other three higher order batsmen who similarly fouled up?   How do you accept that the senior batsmen in the team over the last two years maintained an average rate of less than 40 in tests.   

In the last two series did not produce the goods - before that his average was over 40.and way above that of Du Plessis, Elgar and Van der Dussen,

You must really stop being so besotted with De Kock and start being objective,              

Feb 11, 2021, 11:19

A bit harsh Dave, there are better ways of treating a fine player down on confidence who's been subjected with too much responsibility on top of being out of his depth as a captain. What do you suggest should be done with whoever talked him into a temporary captaincy?


Feb 11, 2021, 17:39

Denny I think he thinks he is indispensable in the side.

I’m sick of him walking out to bat knowing full well we need him to play a measured innings and he plays the most ridiculous shot ever, clearly with no regard to the requirements of his side.

You would think that being the captain would at least see him play responsibly but no.

I get that he should not have been captain in the first place but bottom line is he was captain and with that comes the responsibility of doing what is in the best interest of the team. But he stupidly ignored that responsibility.

He needs to learn to take responsibility not only as a captain but as a team player. He seems to think he is above the team.

Drop him and make him fight for his spot. He needs to appreciate and cherish every moment he plays for his country. He needs to play for the team not himself.

Feb 11, 2021, 17:52

He played a measured innings in the first innings and got out defending. The same was true at the WC, any time he defended he got out. 

A deer in the headlights once he gets tentative. He was dead serious walking out there....devastated when he went out. He tried the only thing that works for him...hitting out.

If you don’t like the way he has played his whole career he should be dropped....he is not going to change now. For me he is probably the best keeper we have and should bat at number 7.

Feb 11, 2021, 18:19

He has not played a single measured innings for some time now

Bullshit I’ve seen him play beautifully at test level building an innings in the classy way he can

So we know he can do it but right now he is a law unto himself with the bat

Feb 11, 2021, 22:08

 So he just didn’t give a damn, didn’t care about the team, wasn’t concerned about the criticism after the game, had no regard for his record as player and captain....and just for the hell of it decided to go for a flash outside his stumps first ball. It doesn’t come off, it’s not his problem.

Why would anyone want that player in his team ever.

Feb 11, 2021, 22:54

Because some players get complacent and take their positions in the team for granted.

Players often talk of this after extended periods in the team.

Rassie himself spoke of himself in that fashion as a player, he said he became arrogant and getting dropped was a wake up call for him

Feb 11, 2021, 23:11

Rassie was pretty useless and I lost respect for him after he let Matt Cockbain treat him as doormat. That test incidentally is where Rassie had his most effective game, rushing up on Larkham....the same tactics he taught Dud Toit to follow against Tiny George.

Nope any player who doesn’t care about the team wouldn’t make my team.

Feb 11, 2021, 23:17

Rassie was a damn fine player

Kevin Pietersen, Jacques Kallis have all spoken of periods when they became complacent

Would you not select these two?

Of course you would

I bet most players that become permanent fixtures in sides over extended periods become complacent - it’s a natural human trait

Feb 12, 2021, 00:42

Sure, but I can’t remember Kallis playing a shot like that, first ball in a test that was up for grabs. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Complacency is not the same as complete irresponsibility.

Feb 12, 2021, 01:27

It’s not the same but complacency breeds irresponsibility.

Kallis maybe not but KP yes

de Kock comes across as not the brightest spark so I don’t expect him to react like others

Poor form, captaincy and playing in an average side seems to have affected his good judgment

SA cricket needs a batting clear out and for de Kock to rediscover his mojo. The same fate seems to have rubbed off on Rabada as well

Feb 12, 2021, 01:50

I agree on Rabada, he looks like he is going through the motions.

Feb 12, 2021, 01:56

We have been spoilt by the likes of Smith, Amla, Kallis, AB, Steyn, Philander and Morkel

This current bunch are sad pretenders

KG has probably started feeling like a lone wolf fighting a losing battle

 
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